Is There A Simple Solution To Networking Your Home?

[bonj]

Okay, my system is as follows:

Conduit through the walls. The plan was to install cable myself with the left over money from the loan, but it all got spent on other things so I have a single cable run from behind the telly to the wiring closet in the spare bedroom. In the wiring closet I have a Linux server which acts as a web/database/file server and router/firewall. I have 3 networks: 1, The ADSL. 2, Wireless. 3, wired ethernet. All networks are routed through the aforementioned server, which also runs the server side of the VPN software which runs on top of the wireless. I have 2 laptops which use the wireless network and the VPN. 1 of those is Linux only, and the other is dual boot Linux and Windows (for my games).

The MythTV media centre shares the ethernet cable with my PlayStation 3 and my Linux based MAME arcade cabinet via a 10/100 switch (yes, I'm still only 100mbit). The MythTV has total of about 500GB storage and a single digital tuner card recording SD. It is capable of HD, but SD uses less space and is fine. It displays on a 76cm widescreen Sony CRT TV. The faster of the laptops also runs a MythTV frontend, so I can watch live TV or recorded programs on it over the VPN, which plays SD fine over wireless... even from next door through the firewall/fire-resistant/noise dampening gyprock (duplex), which is great seeing as it blocks TV signals. I currently only have a standalone SD set top box on the TV in the bedroom... I'd like to run some AV cables for it when I can be bothered. Audio goes through a Sony 5.1 surround receiver which has also yet to receive its deserved cabling to place the rear speakers actually in the rear. Everything (except the bedroom) is controlled by a single Logitech Harmony 525 remote.

 

[PistolPatch]

Jeez! The quality and quantity of info above is tremendous and there are too many of you to thank individually. And the way you have written means that even I can understand most of it. Thanks again! Latch is pretty impressed with the info you can get from brewers! (Thanks for those links to Crozdog - they are going to be a huge help.) :beer:

For my own problem of transmitting TV to my second room, I thought that Bonj abd FraserTag had solved this for me with the combination of the Jaycar AR1844 plus a bluetooth mouse. Alas though I just checked out my Hauppage tuner card and the only connection it has on it is for the antenna in. There are no other connections. Is there somewhere else on the computer I can shove the Jaycar thing or am I stuffed? A pic of the card can be seen here

My model is actually the DT one which must be earlier as it isn't listed - didn't come with a remote either???

Really appreciate the time you have all taken,
Pat

 

[bonj]

You'll need to plug the transmitter from the jaycar unit into the TV out of your video card if it has one. I haven't seen the jaycar unit, but most of those similar units will take s-video (small, round 4 pin plug), or composite (the yellow one). If you use HDMI on your current telly, it carries audio in it, so you will only need to get a 3.5mm stereo plug to 2 RCA audio lead to plug into the jaycar transmitter... otherwise you'll need to split the audio output from the soundcard most likely, so a 3.5mm stereo plug to 2 sockets, so you can use the aforementioned lead.

Hope that makes sense :/

 

[HKS]

Wow some of you guys have some very impressive networked homes.

 

[PistolPatch]

All is perfectly clear now Bonj! Thanks mate. Really looking forward to giving this a whirl.

:beer:
Pat

 

[chovain]

I live a rural property and my neighbours were keen on getting some of the tvshows and movies i have on my computer on theres so we made a trench between the houses ran condute down the sides of our houses and through the ground with a CAT 6 cable between the two.

Be really careful doing that. It's probably not so much of a problem in rural areas where you know you're on the same supply, but if the ground levels differ between the two ends of the connection, you're likely to do some serious damage with that setup.

You should never electrically connect devices unless you know they share ground. Grounds can vary by many, many volts on adjacent circuits.

A slightly related problem: I used to work for a company that had two buildings side by side. They were right on the border of two distribution circuits. A transformer went down in one area, taking down one of the buildings with it. The building that went down had an important server in it, and the UPS started to run down. The bright sparks in the IT department went and ran an extension cable between the two buildings so they could keep power going to the server.

Of course the server was sitting in a rack, sharing earth with a bunch of other machines that were plugged directly into mains. I saw them running the cable and tried to talk them out of it. They ignored me, plugged it in anyway, and took the power out in the good building. I hate to think how much current they would have put through that cable had a safety switch not been installed.

 

[bonj]

Moral of the story: Use fibre... Mmmm fibre.....

 

[frasertag]

Be really careful doing that. It's probably not so much of a problem in rural areas where you know you're on the same supply, but if the ground levels differ between the two ends of the connection, you're likely to do some serious damage with that setup.

You should never electrically connect devices unless you know they share ground. Grounds can vary by many, many volts on adjacent circuits.

A slightly related problem: I used to work for a company that had two buildings side by side. They were right on the border of two distribution circuits. A transformer went down in one area, taking down one of the buildings with it. The building that went down had an important server in it, and the UPS started to run down. The bright sparks in the IT department went and ran an extension cable between the two buildings so they could keep power going to the server.

Of course the server was sitting in a rack, sharing earth with a bunch of other machines that were plugged directly into mains. I saw them running the cable and tried to talk them out of it. They ignored me, plugged it in anyway, and took the power out in the good building. I hate to think how much current they would have put through that cable had a safety switch not been installed.

Actually my house runs 3 phase from there house... so its not a drama

And i forgot to metion i also run wireless for my laptop and my E65 mobile phone automatically connects to my voip service when i arrive at work and at home to get cheap cheap phone calls

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Moral of the story: Use fibre... Mmmm fibre.....

My 1.5cents worth

I am a Qualified Tele/Comms/Radio/Data tech.....and a cabler...nearly 20yrs in the game..

Cat 6 is a wank. It is only rated to 250Mhz @ 100Mtr...Cat 5 is 100Mhz @ 100 Mtrs...

Cat 5 will do, ( and it does ) Gbit ethernet over short distances...we often connect local routers/switches using Gbit using Cat 5

Fibre is the only real answer to big data transfer rates over distances greater than 100mtrs...


If the Ethernet/TCP/IP protocol didnt have so many overheads, 100mbs would be more than enough...

Takes off fire suit...

 

[crozdog]

Be really careful doing that. It's probably not so much of a problem in rural areas where you know you're on the same supply, but if the ground levels differ between the two ends of the connection, you're likely to do some serious damage with that setup.

That is an issue, but the big risk I see with running some twisted pair between 2 rural buildings is the potential for a lightning strike to take out your expensive network & PC gear. I used to work doing component repairs for a modem manufacturer (when repairs were done & a 2400bps modem cost $2500!) & regularly got devices that had been destroyed by lightning hits seeking an earth & following a cable into the house! I don't know of any lightning arrestors for tristed pair LAN connections.

crozdog

 

[crozdog]

Cat 6 is a wank. It is only rated to 250Mhz @ 100Mtr...Cat 5 is 100Mhz @ 100 Mtrs...

Cat 5 will do, ( and it does ) Gbit ethernet over short distances...we often connect local routers/switches using Gbit using Cat 5

Fibre is the only real answer to big data transfer rates over distances greater than 100mtrs...
If the Ethernet/TCP/IP protocol didnt have so many overheads, 100mbs would be more than enough...

Takes off fire suit...

Agreed on all points.

Don't forget there is a difference between Mhz & Mbps

 

[frasertag]

That is an issue, but the big risk I see with running some twisted pair between 2 rural buildings is the potential for a lightning strike to take out your expensive network & PC gear. I used to work doing component repairs for a modem manufacturer (when repairs were done & a 2400bps modem cost $2500!) & regularly got devices that had been destroyed by lightning hits seeking an earth & following a cable into the house! I don't know of any lightning arrestors for tristed pair LAN connections.

crozdog

Unfourtunatly this has happend to us only once in 2 years *touch wood*

We Lost Two Gigabit switches and one of teh ADSL modems aswell as one of the computers on the network now needs to run a PCI-E network card as the onboard blew up. luckly it wasnt that much to replace.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Unfourtunatly this has happend to us only once in 2 years *touch wood*

We Lost Two Gigabit switches and one of teh ADSL modems aswell as one of the computers on the network now needs to run a PCI-E network card as the onboard blew up. luckly it wasnt that much to replace.

Lightening...luv the stuff......causes more problems than anything I have yet to see...Lost count of smoked equipment due to gods battle with lucifer..


Ohh...and Mbs v Mhz....yeah well it is Bits per second versus Cycles per second...or is it Bytes V Cycles.......


I am happy to be a Tech..... IT guys still ask me fundamental questions.....I am Happy...

 

[domonsura]

Just my two cents - I've had wireless througout my last 2 houses and have never wanted for a RJ45 port...

Cheers -Mike

You obviously don't get into online gaming or streaming media...............I've found wireless to be too prone to interference and next to bloody useless for any application that can't deal with the occasional dropped packet (such as gaming or streaming media....)
When I build, I will still be putting cabling in. It's just plain simple & more reliable. (IMHO of course )

 

[MVZOOM]

You obviously don't get into online gaming or streaming media...............I've found wireless to be too prone to interference and next to bloody useless for any application that can't deal with the occasional dropped packet (such as gaming or streaming media....)
When I build, I will still be putting cabling in. It's just plain simple & more reliable. (IMHO of course )

Umm, no I have a squeezbox, three laptops, wireless printing and a central PC for control. I run streaming music through two laptops at once with no issue, run Citrix sessions whilst streaming music - as well as have a consistent VPN session etc.

My wireless connections have always been fine. Granted the house isn't huge (4 bed / study / 2 levels), however I still do all this within the garage, and upstairs et al.

Anyway, as it stands, I'm happy with the simplicity of what we've done here - this is the key. It's bloody easy and hasn't been an issue to date.

If you're going to plumb foxtel / coax into the house then it makes sense to wack in CAT5 and patch it. I'm in an existing house and have already pulled Foxtel cable into the upstairs bedroom and the lounge room, that's the extent of it. My PSDN connections are fairly non existent and I can't see the value in going through a process of change here.

Maybe I'm lazy, however the school of though in my brain exists to say 'once the application requires it, the technology enablement will deliver'. That pretty much means that there are a huge number of houses that exist already that will require solutions to allow them to take advantage of the next wave of media streaming and availability. Therefore, next generation wireless will HAVE to deliver - and I have no doubt it will.

As it stands, the bloke in question at the start of this thread wanted a simple solution to networking his home, if he's asking for advice, I don't know whether he's wanting to take advantage of HDTV via wireless or the like.

Cheers - Mike

PS - opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one!

 

[frasertag]

As it stands, the bloke in question at the start of this thread wanted a simple solution to networking his home, if he's asking for advice, I don't know whether he's wanting to take advantage of HDTV via wireless or the like.

Cheers - Mike

PS - opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one!

He was also asking about using an xbox360 as an extender and as it stands watching live tv/foxtell streamed to the xbox isnt great and presents a disconnected icon everynow and then which can lag a 30minute show by 3minutes and is just plain annoying

Good points tho my last house was all wireless and the video streaming was just simple 2.4ghz video sender but i wouldnt go back there now...

 

[HKS]

You obviously don't get into online gaming or streaming media...............

I won't comment on the streaming of media but I agree 100% about online gaming. I will never, ever play online games via current wireless technologies. It doesn't work, will not work at this stage. If you play any kind of fast action online games like FPS or racing games wireless just does not cut it at this stage. Any kind of latency/interference in those games or dropped packets = you dying or crashing. Not enjoyable from my perspective as an online gamer.

I don't know any "real" online gamer who uses wireless over wired "if" they have the choice. I have tried both for many different games and at this stage I will not use my wireless for online gaming, unless you are the type that enjoys banging your head against the wall, I don't recommend it.

Cheers

 

[domonsura]

I won't comment on the streaming of media but I agree 100% about online gaming. I will never, ever play online games via current wireless technologies. It doesn't work, will not work at this stage. If you play any kind of fast action online games like FPS or racing games wireless just does not cut it at this stage. Any kind of latency/interference in those games or dropped packets = you dying or crashing. Not enjoyable from my perspective as an online gamer.

I don't know any "real" online gamer who uses wireless over wired "if" they have the choice. I have tried both for many different games and at this stage I will not use my wireless for online gaming, unless you are the type that enjoys banging your head against the wall, I don't recommend it.

Cheers

thank YOU.... When I wrote my little rant I was looking more from the perspective of gamer I actually stream media from my server to the computer that is the 'stereo' and it works fine for that, but it still gets dropouts which are a pain....Complete crap for gaming on though. So really, MVZOOM is right too, horses for courses I say, so the 'easiest' would probably be a wireless router and a the appropriate number of USB wireless network adapters. Cheap enough, and very simple to set up You could probably do it for less that $150 for the router and 2 adapters for example.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You can also buy Lan adapters that plug into a power point.

Motels use them instead of wireless or re-cabling the Motel

 

[chovain]

Don't forget there is a difference between Mhz & Mbps

But they're more related than you'd think, according to Shannon's Law. The maximum data rate (bps) that can be transmitted in a noise-free environment is equal to to the frequency of the analogue signal on which it is encoded (Hz). Cool, huh?