Is it just me, or is it REALLY expensive to buy commercially made wine and beer? lol

[Tanglefoot]

Hello
I've been brewing wines, alcoholic ginger beer and even one or two Finnish kilju for about a year and a half.

At the beginning of the week I had a strong desire for beer, but I haven't made any beer yet!

So I went into the supermarket a few days ago to buy a beer.

I picked up a Coopers sparkling ale. Yum yum

I took it to the check out and found out it was NZD$6.50.
I almost felt like I was being ripped off.
I know though it's just because I've gotten used make 6 750ml bottles of ginger beer for about $10.

The beer was really nice and I want more, but I'm not willing to pay for it with it with my money.
Maybe I can convince my wife to buy some for me lol.

Has anyone else had this experience?
Buying one of your favourite beers or wines and realising it costs a fortune compared to what you make yourself?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Hello
I've been brewing wines, alcoholic ginger beer and even one or two Finnish kilju for about a year and a half.

At the beginning of the week I had a strong desire for beer, but I haven't made any beer yet!

So I went into the supermarket a few days ago to buy a beer.

I picked up a Coopers sparkling ale. Yum yum

I took it to the check out and found out it was NZD$6.50.
I almost felt like I was being ripped off.
I know though it's just because I've gotten used make 6 750ml bottles of ginger beer for about $10.

The beer was really nice and I want more, but I'm not willing to pay for it with it with my money.
Maybe I can convince my wife to buy some for me lol.

Has anyone else had this experience?
Buying one of your favourite beers or wines and realising it costs a fortune compared to what you make yourself?

Buy a slab or even a six pack on special, I like Coopers Sparkling and I can't replicate it. Very rarely buy any beer now apart from the Coopers Sparkling but it is usually a six pack, about half that price of buying one.

 

[Hangover68]

Beer by the slab is still quite affordable unless you like the boutique or craft beers.

 

[Drubbing]

6 packs are better pricing than singles. I pay around $23 for Coopers when I buy beer. Which is rare.

I started brewing because I was finding less and less stuff I liked. Little Creatures has been turned to **** by Lion/Kirin. Sierra Nevada new recipe in a can, ****. Coopers are still solid, and trying new stuff so they're not left behind, relying on a few stock beers.

Then the craft brew market has gone full ******. There's some good stuff out there - Beer Farm, Colonial, Eagle Bay, but it costs. The rest is over-marketed stupid beer, which is so hoppy it may as well be fruit juice. The hazy stuff looks **** too. Sours, don't get me started. It's beer, not a lolly.

Sorry for holding back...

 

[razz]

I just think of it as "research dollars"

 

[Grmblz]

Buying one of your favourite beers or wines and realising it costs a fortune compared to what you make yourself?

You're not really comparing apples to apples.
The cheapest beer to make is probably kit n kilo, which will yield an alcoholic beverage, but not what I would describe as a "nice" beer/ale/lager.
Coopers/Morgans etc range from about $20 to $25. The sugar another couple of bucks. Consumables, sanitiser/cleaner another couple of bucks.
To make it easy lets call it $30 all up, for the makings. This yields about 25 long necks, so in round money about a dollar a bottle, or 50c for a stubbie.
BUT!
Lets say 3hrs to go from start to pitching, this includes cleaning/sanitising fermenter/air lock, boiling water etc. Temp control $$$? Cleaning/priming bottles/keg say another hour, possibly 2. Call it 5hrs all up, to end up with 25 longies.
Here's the interesting part that most people overlook, a tradie (someone with a skill) will charge anywhere from $85hr to $120hr, and anyone that brews decent beer is obviously skilled, even shelf stackers get $30hr, and you probably wouldn't want to drink what they would brew.
Lets take the lowest figure, $30 x 5hrs = $150, add on the $30 for ingredients, and your "shelf stacker" ale is now $7.20 a longie.
Your "craft" ale, lets say $85hr becomes $17 a longie.
Remember $7.20 is the cheapest beer, once you get into specialty ingredients, yeasts, hops, grains, milling, sparging; the cost (time taken is multiplied enormously) goes through the roof.
All of a sudden NZD$6.50 doesn't seem so exorbitant.
Ok, you may not charge for your time, but no-one works for nothing, certainly not in breweries, agreed some "artisan" ales ^^ seem ridiculous, until you factor in things like port barrel aging, small volume, limited market, excessive excise on alcohol content etc.
I find this "hobby" broadly speaking, falls into one of two categories, those that just want cheap p**s, and those that want to produce craft beverages, of which they are proud. (not unsurprisingly the same can be said for the distilling mob)
Both are valid views, there's no right or wrong, and if you get enjoyment out of it then it's all good, just don't expect to be buying a "decent" ale for $1.0 a bottle anytime soon.
fwiw: a half decent Coopers sparkling ale can be made from one of their kits, https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/coopers-sparkling-ale.html
Ingredients cost about AUD$50, so $2 ish per long neck

 

[Drubbing]

Ingredients cost about AUD$50, so $2 ish per long neck

I don't think your apples are apples either. Most of your $$ input is time, we can't factor any of that in, no one is actually charging for any of that. Do I think about how much money I'm saving mowing the lawn? Ingredients however, cost money. Electricity costs for brewing and temp control etc are also negligible. Even more so when you have solar.

fwiw: a half decent Coopers sparkling ale can be made from one of their kits, https://www.diybeer.com/au/recipe/coopers-sparkling-ale.html

I brewed it when doing kits, and it's just a bland Aussie pale. It's ok as most cooper kits are, but not in the ballpark of their own brews.

I've been brewing AG for about 4 months, and 3 of the recipes I've done nailed a style or beer very welll. Just done a Hobgoblin clone and to my palette, it's damn close. Pretty complex flavours for such a simple recipe.

Kits have never been able to do it and I did try a Hobgoblin with them. Was way more effort for a far worse result. Made plenty of drinkable brews with kits though.

 

[Grmblz]

I don't think your apples are apples either. Most of your $$ input is time, we can't factor any of that in, no one is actually charging for any of that. Do I think about how much money I'm saving mowing the lawn? Ingredients however, cost money. Electricity costs for brewing and temp control etc are also negligible. Even more so when you have solar.


I brewed it when doing kits, and it's just a bland Aussie pale. It's ok as most cooper kits are, but not in the ballpark of their own brews.

I've been brewing AG for about 4 months, and 3 of the recipes I've done nailed a style or beer very welll. Just done a Hobgoblin clone and to my palette, it's damn close. Pretty complex flavours for such a simple recipe.

Kits have never been able to do it and I did try a Hobgoblin with them. Was way more effort for a far worse result. Made plenty of drinkable brews with kits though.

Sorry mate I think you're missing the point I was trying to make.
Actually yes I do pay someone to mow my lawn, why? because I value my time, and my $ per hour is worth more than what the kid down the road charges me to do it.
You then bring in solar? Ok I have 9.60 kw on my roof, so what, I don't make assumptions like that.
I didn't say "clone" sparkling, I said half way decent, in other words not VB or great northern (apologies to all you guys that like that stuff, it's just not my thing)
Bland! try Coopers Imperial russian stout recipe, leave it for two yrs though. Oh, and get a big fermenter.
I'm happy that you've discovered AG, and will get no argument from me regards the quality of a well crafted/executed AG v a "kit" READ my post.
BUT! that was not the point of my comment, read the OP.
As per my previous comment, and I mean no offence to him, I think he falls into the cheap p**s side of our hobby, you apparently are on the other side of the fence, and for that I applaud you, only because "yer on my side"
Not valuing your time is generally a privilege of youth, because you think you have an inexhaustible supply of it, Newsflash! YOU DON'T! As one gets older time becomes more precious, and therefore more valuable, independent of what your income may be.
Finally: "Kits have never been able to do it and I did try a Hobgoblin with them. Was way more effort for a far worse result." How on earth can a "kit" gobbler (it's what we call it in the UK) be more effort than an AG?
After too many yrs of this game (I started with malt extract designed for a health drink) PLEASE! you young guys, READ and TAKE IN what is being said, before shooting from the hip with some ill-conceived (this is what "I"" do) commentary.
I know you think you invented ***, and the thought of mom masturbating disturbs you, but guess what? Once upon a time I did too, but no longer, because I'm now aware that my time is limited, and I've become very aware of it, no idea how long but it's not going for free,
Ever wondered why those with financial means leave the hobby and buy their stupidly priced special beers, rather than make them as they get older? Could it be that aging something for 3-5yrs might not be a viable option, but we still want the luxury of consuming it?
So look at the big picture mate. Think outside your box.
And no offence meant, just an alternative view.
Cheers G

 

[Narapoia]

Hello
I've been brewing wines, alcoholic ginger beer and even one or two Finnish kilju for about a year and a half.

At the beginning of the week I had a strong desire for beer, but I haven't made any beer yet!

So I went into the supermarket a few days ago to buy a beer.

I picked up a Coopers sparkling ale. Yum yum

I took it to the check out and found out it was NZD$6.50.
I almost felt like I was being ripped off.
I know though it's just because I've gotten used make 6 750ml bottles of ginger beer for about $10.

The beer was really nice and I want more, but I'm not willing to pay for it with it with my money.
Maybe I can convince my wife to buy some for me lol.

Has anyone else had this experience?
Buying one of your favourite beers or wines and realising it costs a fortune compared to what you make yourself?

Mate I hear you and it's so much worse in Australia. Longneck of Sparkling ale - when not on special must be at least AUD$8 or $9 these days (Dunno haven't bought them for a long time).

You can't by a dozen beers here for some reason, so if you are heading to a party instead of just being able to pick up something sessionable like a Euro Lager for $20-$25 like you can in NZ, you have to fork out $55-65 depending on the beer for 24, or $35-50 for 2 six packs.. Six packs are usually around $20 for anything that is worth drinking unless on special. It drives me nuts that it can be so expensive over here. A 12 pack of semi-craft beer in NZ (think Stoke etc NZ$25) can be bought for the same price as a 6pack of mega swill here in Aus.

The taxes applied are really high and that is a big component of the price, as beer is pretty cheap to make. It is also applied based on the size of the vessel that the beer is in and how they are sealed. Due to how the laws are worded one of the big macro breweries here spent a fortune on marketing to try and get people to drink out of 2L replaceable plastic draught dispensers in their fridges so they could duck out on most of the tax applied to beer (without dropping the price, of course). Hate to think what that advertising campaign cost - ads were on every ad break for about 6-12 months. Reckon it could have worked but the dispensers didn't work well apparently.

The price of beer in Australia is bonkers, I'll only ever buy stuff I like when it is on special. Every time I go back to NZ I love how cheap everything is by comparison. Though the recent surge in inflation there is no doubt making things worse.

 

[bradmcm]

In Australia, the current excise rate for beer > 3% is $40.72/l of pure alcohol for kegs and $57.79/l for bottles and cans. This will go up again this time next week.
Spirits are $97.20/l and will break the $100 mark next week.
NZ works slightly differently as they also include the volume of liquid as well on beer but excise on standard strength beer is around NZ$36/l and spirits are NZ$64.57/l .

 

[Dave70]

Blame your (and our) government. They're huge on sin tax.
I found the beer prices (at least on the south island) earlier this year to be pretty much on a par with Aud prices.
Crafties were still pricy, though more seemed to be 'on sale'. Found a few bargains on Tuatara and Macs here and there.

I also tried some Tui and Speights Gold Medal.
Right up there with the best mega swill junkies piss on offer in Australia. So well done there.
Personal opinion.

 

[yankinoz]

Australia shares with quite a few countries its high taxes on spirits, but Australia's policies on wine vs beer are unique. The tax on beer is unusually high, though not uniquely so. Pick through the complex rules of the wine equalisation tax (the 29% rate on wholesale and the various offsetting exclusions and rebates) and you find that the tax load is low or nil on cheap wines from small producers, but very high in relation to alcohol content on, say, a bottle of Penfold's Grange. They must down a lot of plonk in Canberra.

Federal taxes in the US are based on alcohol content and are fairly low, the main reason, though not the only reason, you may have noticed low beer prices in the States, even on Australian brands. But various states can and do levy additional charges. You won't find cheap beer everywhere.

 

[Narapoia]

Blame your (and our) government. They're huge on sin tax.
I found the beer prices (at least on the south island) earlier this year to be pretty much on a par with Aud prices.
Crafties were still pricy, though more seemed to be 'on sale'. Found a few bargains on Tuatara and Macs here and there.

I also tried some Tui and Speights Gold Medal.
Right up there with the best mega swill junkies piss on offer in Australia. So well done there.
Personal opinion.

Tui and Speights are an acquired taste even for mega swill. Interesting re prices in the South Island, my primary experience has been with the prices in Auckland.

 

[djebel]

Australia shares with quite a few countries its high taxes on spirits, but Australia's policies on wine vs beer are unique. The tax on beer is unusually high, though not uniquely so. Pick through the complex rules of the wine equalisation tax (the 29% rate on wholesale and the various offsetting exclusions and rebates) and you find that the tax load is low or nil on cheap wines from small producers, but very high in relation to alcohol content on, say, a bottle of Penfold's Grange. They must down a lot of plonk in Canberra.

Federal taxes in the US are based on alcohol content and are fairly low, the main reason, though not the only reason, you may have noticed low beer prices in the States, even on Australian brands. But various states can and do levy additional charges. You won't find cheap beer everywhere.

Several years ago there was a proposal to equalise the alcohol excise between different types of beverages, to eliminate the non-spirit based alcopops that sprang up in the wake of the alcopop tax.

The loudest screaming came from the wine industry.

 

[Drubbing]

Not valuing your time is generally a privilege of youth, because you think you have an inexhaustible supply of it, Newsflash! YOU DON'T! As one gets older time becomes more precious, and therefore more valuable, independent of what your income may be.

I get all your saying, but it's not my point. It's a hobby, you can't factor in your time as an actual cost. Otherwise you'd be applying costs to everything non work related you do, which is a bit silly IMO. Time, power etc are all negligible things cost wise. The ingredient are an actual cost.

Finally: "Kits have never been able to do it and I did try a Hobgoblin with them. Was way more effort for a far worse result." How on earth can a "kit" gobbler (it's what we call it in the UK) be more effort than an AG?

The Cooper HG recipe requires a tin, a liquid extract, dry extract, and a grain mini mash with hop adds, which for a kit brewer without relevant gear is far more arsing about. I've done an easier clone in a 1 vessel system with less fuss. And of course it tastes better.

 

[Grmblz]

I get all your saying, but it's not my point. It's a hobby, you can't factor in your time as an actual cost. Otherwise you'd be applying costs to everything non work related you do, which is a bit silly IMO. Time, power etc are all negligible things cost wise. The ingredient are an actual cost.

Ahaa! I would half agree with you.
If as I suspect you're interested in producing craft beverages of superior quality then we are in violent agreement, it is indeed a hobby

However, the other side of the fence "I just want cheap p**s" are doing it solely as a money saving venture, and as such it's not a hobby for them (sadly) it's just a cheap way to get drunk, and if this is the case then surely the time taken should be factored into the equation?

The Cooper HG recipe requires a tin, a liquid extract, dry extract, and a grain mini mash with hop adds, which for a kit brewer without relevant gear is far more arsing about. I've done an easier clone in a 1 vessel system with less fuss. And of course it tastes better.

I was referring to Thomas Coopers Innkeeper's Daughter Sparkling Ale (1.7kg) 1 x can (yeast included, although I would double it) and 1.5kg LDME, doesn't come much simpler than that. As I said, half! decent.
My personal preference for this type would be their https://www.diybeer.com/au/the-voyage-iipa-advanced-recipe-pack.html but as you point out there's a fair bit of faffing about, so might as well just go AG if time permits (Ahhh, time! the elephant in the room, if only we had a crystal ball)
Cheers G

 

[Drubbing]

If as I suspect you're interested in producing craft beverages of superior quality then we are in violent agreement, it is indeed a hobby

Not really that hardcore. AG makes cleaner more interesting beer. I'm not into the craft beer as it currently sells. A lot of it is over marketed rubbish. I make fairly simple recipes of standards and classics - ESB, Little creatures and Sierra and some nice english 'craft' bitters from before it was called that, like the Hobgoblin.

I was referring to Thomas Coopers Innkeeper's Daughter Sparkling Ale (1.7kg) 1 x can (yeast included, although I would double it) and 1.5kg LDME, doesn't come much simpler than that. As I said, half! decent.

We were referring to different things, I meant the Hobgoblin. I've made the Innkeepers that of course. It's fairly nondescript, doesn't taste much like their sparkling to me. I prefer to buy a few when i feel like one. Used it in some of their recipes, like the Scottish ale. Good beer. Coopers recipe kits are good.

 

[Malchizedec]

When I look at the brewery downstairs and have a moment of honesty..... a single gold covered store bought beer looks reasonably priced