Initial Taste...

[blink471]

Hi everyone,

Just just trying to find out something that is bugging me in brewing...


I do all grain and keg my brews..
I use Pilsner malt all the time because I wanted a lighter style beer and thought that was the base grain to use.
But everytime I brew a beer I get this underlying sweet almost honey flavour coming through.

I am getting to the stage of really over doing early hop additions to compensate.

Is that what Pilsner malt does by a real sweet flavour?.. Or it could be my technique..
By the way I do BIAB.. and prefer that way..

Respect.

 

[MHB]

Likely to be yeast management issues
Search for "Honey" View attachment Complete_Beer_Fault_Guide.pdf
Mark

 

[Mardoo]

Do you purge your kegs before and after draining the fermenter into them? Honey aroma and flavour can also come from that. See Oxidation in the doc MHB posted. I had a honey flavour I kept getting until I began purging before and after kegging.

 

[blink471]

Do you purge your kegs before and after draining the fermenter into them?

Yep.. I do that.. Its just a flavour thing... Im getting this sweet taste... i want sharp crisp bitter bite...

 

[blink471]

Likely to be yeast management issues
Search for "Honey"

Complete_Beer_Fault_Guide.pdf
Mark

Im pretty good with that... I use fresh White Labs yeast.. or I harvest yeast and do a starter...
No problem with fermentation...

 

[MHB]

Have a long hard look at your mash temperatures (calibrate equipment) maybe mash a little cooler.
Pitch a lot of healthy yeast into a well aerated wort (might be worth buying double for one batch and see if that helps)
Do everything you can to reduce O2 pick all they way through the process from strike water to packaging.
Mark

The temperature you are fermenting at might make a difference, worth trying a different yeast to 34/70 is well worth a go if you want clean dry lager.
M

 

[blink471]

Have a long hard look at your mash temperatures (calibrate equipment) maybe mash a little cooler.
Pitch a lot of healthy yeast into a well aerated wort (might be worth buying double for one batch and see if that helps)
Do everything you can to reduce O2 pick all they way through the process from strike water to packaging.
Mark

Ok... will check that... I might being very picky with my beers... I am determined to get this right...

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Mash temp..

 

[blink471]

Mash temp..

Too hot???

 

[manticle]

What yeast/s are you using?

 

[blink471]

What yeast/s are you using?

Currently White Labs 029... German Ale/
Kolsch Lager

 

[blink471]

Im thinking it might be Mash temps... as Ductiboy suggested...

 

[manticle]

Currently White Labs 029... German Ale/
Kolsch Lager

Has the honey been present with a variety of yeasts?

What mash temp are you generally aiming for and how reliable is your thermometer?

 

[MHB]

Kölsch isn't a Lager its (as the name says) an Ale, Ales throw a lot more esters than Lagers and of all the Ale yeasts I have used I would think of Kölsch as being the most challenging, makes great beer if you get everything spot on.
If you want a lager use a lager yeast, use a high population (reduces esters), and ferment it properly (temp control is critical).
Otherwise choose a low flavour highly attenuateive ale yeast (SO-4 is brilliant), ferment it at the cooler end of the range (16-18oC)

What sort of attenuation are you getting with the Kölsch yeast? if it is as expected your mash temp probably isn't too far out, a little cooler will improve fermentability giving a cleaner tasting beer. Braukaiser has done some good work on mash temp V fermentability, worth reading.
Mark

 

[damoninja]

Never had this with pilsner malts, the only thing I do differently when using pilsner malts is boil longer...
Incidentally just used 50% pilsner in a honey wheat, different yeast of course but the honey might have been good

It's funny you should say this though because I quite often get honey flavours from lagers and pilsners that others fail to find... I remember talking a brewer from Yenda (aka Woolies brewery) and commenting that the honey wheat beer that they'd brewed tasted less like honey than his pale and lager. Probably half his beers had it.

I even get it in crown lager *shudders* not that I make a habit of drinking it but when I'm backed in to a corner and it's all that's at some shitty party, it just tastes sweet...

 

[Garfield]

Honey is a very common ester, especially if you use a lot of specialty grain. What is in your grist other than pils?

Im thinking it might be Mash temps... as Ductiboy suggested...

Unless I just missed it, I couldn't find your mash temp posted anywhere...

I'm very interested in your decision to brew with pilsner malt. I've mostly used Ale malt and only occasionally brewed with pils. The cleanest/lightest brew I achieved was with the ale malt. In any case, are you doing the 90min boil?

 

[donald_trub]

I'm going to say mash temp too. Check the accuracy of your thermometer. You may be surprised how far off some of them are.

 

[blink471]

Ok. As a newbie... I tend to rush to

Honey is a very common ester, especially if you use a lot of specialty grain. What is in your grist other than pils?


Unless I just missed it, I couldn't find your mash temp posted anywhere...

I'm very interested in your decision to brew with pilsner malt. I've mostly used Ale malt and only occasionally brewed with pils. The cleanest/lightest brew I achieved was with the ale malt. In any case, are you doing the 90min boil?

Thanks for your reply... I went for using Pils Malt mainly because I like European style beers... light in colour and not too heavy.. Thats is the only reason. I have used ale malt but just thought I would give it a go. I too use a 90 boil. I just poured another beer and although I can taste it... its a bit better...

 

[blink471]

Thanks everyone.. I am trying to narrow down this flavour i'm getting... my neighbour who comes over to sample... (as they do)... thinks its fine. But maybe its me. Damoninja I notice you have had this thought too... My mash temps are based on what I punch into Beersmith... using a BIAB technique.


Saccharification

Add 38.88 l of water at 69.7 C

66.7 C

75 min

Mash Out

Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min

75.6 C

10 min

Just poured another beer now and its not too bad... but would love to work it out.

 

[Beamer]

I use alot of kolsch yeast and pilsner malt trying to nail that european beer, a lovely crisp fresh beer.

I find the problem is i dont get that crispness from an ale yeast (besides saison and hef).

I think the majority of beers we enjoy from europe are lagers/pilsners. I am now going to give a couple of my kolsch grain bills a go with lager yeast and see if i achieve that crispness.

Then again a kolsch is known as a golden german ale (if its not from cologne) so maybe it should have a little bit of malt/ honey sweetness to it, not that lovely mouthfeel of lagers/pilsners.

you could also try a 75 min boil.