Immersion Chiller Vs Counterflow Chiller Design

[speedie]

bribie the water is generally around mid 20s
all breweries use a demountable plate heat exchanger this stlye is way easyer to clean and if there capacity is increased more cells can be added to the body
homebrew units are brazed plate and are very easy to block
back flush when cleaning use caustic@ 80 degrees

 

[browndog]

What a lot of rubbish. Plate chillers do clog. I sold mine because of this. My immersion chiller can't clog.

Also, with a plate chiller, you need to whirlpool if you are going to the fermentor straight away, this means your wort is sitting at boil temps for the 10 mins or so it takes the whirlpool to settle (and if it's a hoppy beer you need to whirlpool to avoid trub), then it takes at least that long again (if not more like 20 mins) to run it through. That means your last run off has been at near boil temps for over 20-30 mins.

Even if you recirculate straight from flame out, the wort that is sitting at the top of the vessel (ie, last to pass through chiller) is at boil temps for far longer than when using a recirculating immersion chiller.

My setup gets 30L of wort to under 80 degress (crucial temp to stop hops isomerising) in about 3 minutes.

I use a plate chiller and have never had a blockage, it all depends on how you set up your pick up in your kettle, as for having to wait 20 mins before the last of the wort is chilled, I'd prefer that any day to having copper oxide in my beer. Ever noticed how nice and shiny your immersions chiller is when you take it out of the kettle?

 

[Maxt]

I must be doing something wrong Browndog, mine's never shiny!

 

[yardy]

25L from 100c to 18c in 3 minutes? Do tell? A video or pics would be even better.

yeah, i'd like to see that

 

[Filby]

Interesting discussion!

As far as an immersion chiller goes I dont understand why people dont use 1/4" copper tube. Firstly its cheaper, but also it has greater surface area for the cooling water so that the 'middle' of the cooling water doest 'slip' through without doing any work. Once you get to sizes like 1/2" the efficiency of the cooler reduces because your not maximising the absorbtion of heat into the water.

The only downside to 1/4" is the amount of friction inside the tube which means you need to make sure all your bends are super smooth otherwise the water will come out in a dribble!

Fil

 

[shadders]

The only downside to 1/4" is the amount of friction inside the tube which means you need to make sure all your bends are super smooth otherwise the water will come out in a dribble!

Fil

This is even more of a plus IMHO. Factors that will improve heat transfer include higher pressure, lower flow rate, friction and turbulence inside pipe. I have 3/8" pipe but once I get to the last few degrees of the chill I usually kink the outlet hose or put a brick on it reduce flow and increase pressure. If I could figure out and easy way to stutter the flow and create turbulence, pressure waves I reckon that would improve things as well.

Those last few degrees really matter to me because my tap water can get up to high 20's in summer and I like to aerate my wort by dumping it out of the kettle from a great height so I need it down to 27 max to avoid oxidation. I have a second smaller coil which goes into an ice bath for the last few minutes and then on to the main chiller. Before I started doing this I couldn't hit target temps at all in summer.

Also I notice a lot of peoples immersion chillers are perfect coil shapes. Mine was originally this shape until it twigged to me that without whirlpooling the only thing to encourage the cooled wort to move away from the coil and give the hot wort a go was thermal currents. With a tightly wound coil these were severely restricted. I mangled my coil into an odd shape and it worked more efficiently. Basically with every other coil I'd either pull it to slightly tighter coil and the next one a slightly looser coil making sure it wasn't all regular. Now my chiller is ugly as sin but it definitely improved cooling times as the thermal currents become much more chaotic, more like turbulence in the wort.

 

[Filby]

What I meant by smooth bends is if you get a small kink in 10m of 1/4" you'd get a flow rate of about 1lt per hour But I agree, achieving contact time with the cooling water and copper is very important.

The copper condensors I have made have been a double or tripple coil (coil within a coil within a coil) and this, like you were describing, improves movement of the wort so you dont get hot and cold spots forming. A cone shape will also have a similar effect.

Fil

 

[rotten]

Thanks for all your input guys.

My thoughts, plate chiller sounds easy, but I get heaps of debris in my brew and dont whirlpool, which is an option I know. Plus I would get caught out with cleaning eventually, it's a next day thing for me as I normally brew at night.

I'm not sure I could build (solder) a counterflow effectively and efficiently, and then there are the cleaning issues. I could just buy one already made.

I do like at the moment the concept of the immersion chiller, oddly made makes sense as well. I could whirlpool with the addition of one of those cheap solar pumps as well when the time is right.

Slow moving cooling liquid makes perfect sense to me for heat transfer. If I moved to no rinse sanitiser or watered the garden, the water used wouldn't be an issue.

Will show pics when I have purchased or made my decision.
Cheers for advice again.
rotten

 

[Wolfy]

If I moved to no rinse sanitiser or watered the garden, the water used wouldn't be an issue.

I collect the cooler-waste-water in a few cubes and then use them for the next few loads of clothes washing.

 

[Maxt]

I suppose my method makes sense as I use the water from my 10,000L tanks to chill, and I pump it back into them, so other than a bit of electricity I don't waste resources.

 

[adryargument]

Same, i use a simple drill pump to circulate the water from the 2000l Tank.

I suppose my method makes sense as I use the water from my 10,000L tanks to chill, and I pump it back into them, so other than a bit of electricity I don't waste resources.

 

[rotten]

Thanks again.
What are peoples thoughts on copper vs stainless immersion chillers. I still plan on using a whirlpool with it, and a solar pump, although I visited the keg king site to look at other stuff and saw the stainless version of the immersion chiller.
Your thoughts.

 

[razz]

They both will work rotten, but the copper will exchange heat a lot faster than stainless. It's also a lot cheaper to buy/fabricate.

 

[rotten]

Thanks Razz, that's what I was after.
A Scientist I'm not, a beer drinker I am. :lol:
Cheers

 

[Maxt]

I'm still keen to learn more about Sammus' plate chiller rig that drops wort 80degrees in 3 minutes.

 

[Davesmith89]

What about wort oxidisation in the whirlpool just after flame out??

In my opionion, you can knock yourself up a immersion chiller for 70 bucks and save the hassle of the extra hoses. I use the hot run off to clean equiptment and keep my finger warm.

 

[Hatchy]

Funny to see this thread pop up today rotten. How did that plate chiller work for you?