Im Curious about Barley Wine

[Chookers]

I have recently come across a recipe online, I am going to put the web site below, I hope I am allowed to do that.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/lets-brew-wednesday-1972-whitbread-gold.html

I don't understand this recipe, as I have only just done my first small batch BIAB, but I would like to know what they mean by (6% invert No 1) and (13.6% Invert No2)

Can someone explain this recipe to me in layman's terms.. I have never had a Barley Wine before, but have been intrigued by them since my grandfather told me of his experience after enjoying one to many.

Any help deciphering this recipe would be appreciated and I hope I haven't broken any rules by putting this link in.

Cheers

 

[danestead]

Sounds like invert sugar and the colour it is made to. Do a google for belgian candi syrup and it might make more sense.

 

[Mardoo]

It is indeed invert sugar. If you dig around in SUABPerkins he has some explanations of invert sugar and bits of detail about the different ones. Numbers 1-3 are delineated by their colour as far as I can tell.

Regular supermarket sugar, sucrose, is made up of two other types of sugar, being glucose and fructose. In invert sugar the sucrose has been broken down into its components, glucose and fructose. It has a number of qualities that make it more attractive than sugar for some baking and brewing, among others.

Great website, with some astonishingly good recipes, my favourite being the 1914 Courage Imperial Stout.

 

[Chookers]

thanks for the explanations guys.

Mardoo, I will check out that recipe..

Only thing about Barley Wines that kinda puts me off is the aging.. Im not patient enough. :-D

 

[mckenry]

thanks for the explanations guys.

Mardoo, I will check out that recipe..

Only thing about Barley Wines that kinda puts me off is the aging.. Im not patient enough. :-D

Another thing is the morning after.

 

[Chookers]

lol, are they really strong? I suppose that's why they call it barley wine and not beer, wine is usually 13% I think.

 

[quadbox]

It's just a style of beer like any other. They're usually fairly alcoholic, but they're no more than, say, a russian imperial stout. or come to that a lot of the larger imperial IPAs out there...

Fullers golden pride, which is an english barleywine that springs to mind, is 8.5%.

the BJCP style guidelines say between 8 and 12% for both english and american barleywines to give some perspective.

Personally as someone in the habit of sessioning imperial IPAs I dont find them all that strong at all

 

[Chookers]

so if I made some and bottle carb it, will the carbonation hold until its of age?

 

[manticle]

If capped and stored correctly it should. Avoid PET.

Also barley wine is usually pretty low in carbonation.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Invert can be made easly at home


Stolen from Wikipeadia

Chemical reaction of the inversion[SIZE=small][edit][/SIZE]
The term 'inverted' is derived from the method of measuring the concentration of sugar syrup using a polarimeter. Plane polarized light, when passed through a sample of pure sucrose solution, is rotated to the right (optical rotation). As the solution is converted to a mixture of sucrose, fructose and glucose, the amount of rotation is reduced until (in a fully converted solution) the direction of rotation has changed (inverted) from right to left.

C12H22O11 (sucrose, Specific rotation = +66.5°) + H2O (water, no rotation) → C6H12O6 (glucose, Specific rotation = +52.7°) + C6H12O6 (fructose, Specific rotation = −92°)

net: +66.5° converts to −19.7° (half of the sum of the specific rotation of fructose and glucose)
Hydrolysis is a chemical reaction in which a molecule breaks down by the addition of water. Hydrolysis of sucrose yields glucose and fructose about 85%, the reaction temperature can be maintained at 50–60 °C (122–140 °F).

Inverting sugar[SIZE=small][edit][/SIZE]
Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding water and roughly one gram of citric acid per kilogram of sugar.[5] (Lemon juice is 5% to 6% citric acid, with a negligible amount of ascorbic acid, so this would correspond to about 20 grams of lemon juice per kilogram of sugar.) Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram)[5] or fresh lemon juice (10 milliliters per kilogram) may also be used.
The mixture is boiled to get to a temperature of 114 °C (237 °F),[5] and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.


Basic formula
by weight
[note 1]

sucrose

100%

water

50%

acid

0.1%

 

[Charst]

If capped and stored correctly it should. Avoid PET.

Also barley wine is usually pretty low in carbonation.

Hey mants why avoid the PET?

Getting off topic but being VICbrew no longer allows the traditional and appropriate champagne bottle I was planning on bottling some Belgian dark strong in PET for comp.

 

[Velu]

I think PET allows for a little more oxidation than glass, so aging in PET is generally not as good.
But your right, many comps/swaps don't allow glass, so it can be tough for some aged beers to enter in comps.

 

[quadbox]

Hey mants why avoid the PET?

Getting off topic but being VICbrew no longer allows the traditional and appropriate champagne bottle I was planning on bottling some Belgian dark strong in PET for comp.

PET bottles are porous over a long enough timeframe. It's not going to be an issue if you're drinking it the same year, but you'll start having issues with oxygenation and some loss of carbonation if you're long term aging something like a barleywine long term in them

 

[Chookers]

Thanks for that wiki Ducatiboy stu I will try out some of those suggestions, and make myself a batch... Im starting to feel like making this Barley Wine the more I read.. Could I make it BIAB, I don't have a lot of room or equipment.


would using champagne bottles be suitable? they would have to be corked...

The carbing is low?

I read the opposite about carbonating Barley Wine, it was fairly high (I thought, and it didn't sound right). I'll have to go find that web site again..

My equipment

• 19L Stock Pot (BigW)
• 15L Stock Pot (Kmart)
• Grain Bag
• Candy Thermometre
• 15L Fermenter (I use this one most often)
• 30L Fermenter (rarely use)

Im thinking of getting some of these http://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/outdoor-living/coolers-picnicware/portable-water-storage
10L or 20L if they made the 15L in the same shape I would get it for sure.

 

[manticle]

Hi Charst - as per homicidal teddy.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

PET bottles are porous over a long enough timeframe. It's not going to be an issue if you're drinking it the same year, but you'll start having issues with oxygenation and some loss of carbonation if you're long term aging something like a barleywine long term in them

That's disappointing to here, I didn't know that.

Chookers, you may want to use both your stock pots to boil down a larger pre boil wort. Its common for home brewers to undershoot their expected gravity target with heavy grain bills. You may need to sparge more to extract most the malt getting a larger pre boil volume. Long boil it down etc. This may vary a lot with brewers and different equipment.

 

[Reman]

You can try re-iterated mashing to just use the one pot. This is how I'm planning to do 15l of 1.100 Barleywine in the 19l stock pot.

My current recipe is 3.48kg of 7EBC Ale malt in each mash with a 2 hour boil.

https://byo.com/bock/item/1317-reiterated-mashing-multiple-mashes-for-massive-brews

 

[Chookers]

Danscraftdbeer, what would you suggest, 15L in the 19L pot and 10 in the 15L pot??

Thanks Reman, just checking out your link now

What sized L batch should I be aiming for? a half batch 11.5L ??..

I'm looking at getting different fermentation containers, my fermenters are the one from the coopers home brew kit, and the 15L is from a wine kit.. but their round shape is not easy to handle or fit in the fridge etc.. so I'm thinking the rectangular shapes would be more efficient.. with my current space and equipment I did consider the 20L jerry cans but I actually think the 10L would suit me better.. (I know they sound really small, and I'm not happy about it) if I could get 15L in that shape I would be very happy.

so whats opinions on this (adapted from the web site I put in my first post)

• 3.84kg Pale Malt
• 0.418kg Flaked Maize (is this easy to get, what are some good alternatives?)
• 0.316kg Invert 1 (which I will attempt to make myself, I just hope I get the colour right)
• 0.720kg Invert 2 (same as above)

Hops

• I am open to suggestions.. also would like opinions on Pellets Vs Flowers, and are there any Australian alternatives
• 37.45g Goldings 4.5%
• 11.20g Hallertauer 3.5%
• 12.45g Styrian Goldings 5.25%

I have the Safale S04 yeast.

this is exciting.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Haha, I haven't quite gone to the level of Barlywine. I think a 12lt brew is very sensible. For crazy heavy beer. I don't use S04. I think if you do you need to really boot it up and activate it in a starter. I use starters 90% of the time anyway but that S04 has a reputation for bombing out before doing the full job of fermenting.

 

[Chookers]

Danscraftbeer, really (about the yeast).. Oh.. damn.. I was following this Barclay Perkins recipe and it compared the S04 (which I am using to make soft ginger beer) with the 1099 Whitebread Ale Yeast (which I don't have, yet)..

I wouldn't want to waste any time or ingredients so I'll wait till I got everything..

12L sounds like a nice little batch.. I wonder if Im biting off more than I can chew here.. as I have only got one BIAB under my belt and its not even bottled yet, HA!

The hops in this recipe, I would want to change to Australian hop flower alternatives.. so I'm looking for ideas on similar flavours and bitterness levels.

As well as the flaked maize, which I have read some interesting alternative to that also.. eg polenta, flaked rice, popped corn.. and someone even used cornflakes.

I wonder if aging this beer, would actually change the flavour.. its in glass.. I don't understand how it would change flavour.. I get how drinks will change flavour in wooden casks..