Im Curious about Barley Wine

[manticle]

It changes flavour because chemical reactions occur for a variety of reasons. Some pathways begin as far back as malting.

Milk would change flavour if bottled in glass and aged. Why not beer?

Wine does too by the way - just won't get a huge benefit ageing your 18 yr old scotch for an extra 10 once bottled.

 

[Chookers]

I found this info on this forum somewhere..

Inverting Sugar

Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acidhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid or ascorbic acid, per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 millilitres per kilogram) may also be used.The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.All inverted sugar syrups are created from hydrolysing sucrose to glucose (dextrose) and fructose by heating a sucrose solution, then relying on time alone, with the catalytic properties of an acid or enzymes used to speed the reaction. Commercially prepared acid catalysed solutions are neutralised when the desired level of inversion is reached.All constituent sugars (sucrose, glucose and fructose) support fermentation, so invert sugar solutions may be fermented as readily as sucrose solutions.



Just saying

 

[Chookers]

I need the best yeast and hops to achieve the tasting notes on the Barclay Perkins recipe, which are as below.

"Husky, Grainy Malt, Wicked Fruity Tickle, Big rich and mouth numbingly cool"

I would love to hear peoples suggestions/opinions

how long do you think it needs to age to get the best results.

 

[danestead]

I need the best yeast and hops to achieve the tasting notes on the Barclay Perkins recipe, which are as below.

"Husky, Grainy Malt, Wicked Fruity Tickle, Big rich and mouth numbingly cool"

I would love to hear peoples suggestions/opinions

how long do you think it needs to age to get the best results.

Best yeast - Ive done a couple of 9% beers recently which have turned out excellent with no harsh alcohols after little aging. I think your key for 'best yeast' is to pitch an appropriate amount with strict temp control. The RIS I brewed I pitched an amount of yeast calculated as follows. I used an online yeast calculator like yeastcalc and entered the OG and Litres as usual however I used the 'Lager' option even though it was fermented with wy1056. I believe this is somewhat standard practice for brews up above about 1.080 OG. The belgian tripel I brewed I pitched less than that however that was to deliberately stress the yeast a little more to push the esters etc. I also did a 2nd oxygenation of 1 minute at 12 hrs post pitching.

 

[Chookers]

thanks danestead, yeast calculator.. OMG.. I didn't even know they existed.. I will check it out and follow your advice. But the thought of oxygenation of yeast, I would know how to do that, I only have limited equipment.

I've been looking at a lot of hops tonight..

I already have a packet of BSAAZ and a Packet of Nelson Sauvin Flowers.. I don't know if they would be useful in this or not.

I have been looking at Ella and Helga and Topaz.. and also keep getting drawn to Summer.. and I don't know if these would be useful.. am I on the right track here?

would the wy1056 be a good option for this?

 

[danestead]

thanks danestead, yeast calculator.. OMG.. I didn't even know they existed.. I will check it out and follow your advice. But the thought of oxygenation of yeast, I would know how to do that, I only have limited equipment.

I've been looking at a lot of hops tonight..

I already have a packet of BSAAZ and a Packet of Nelson Sauvin Flowers.. I don't know if they would be useful in this or not.

I have been looking at Ella and Helga and Topaz.. and also keep getting drawn to Summer.. and I don't know if these would be useful.. am I on the right track here?

would the wy1056 be a good option for this?

if you dont havea way of controlling the temperature of your fermentations and dont have pure oxygen I would seriously stick with lower alcohol brews. There is a good chance that without sufficient control of your fermentation and by that I mean pitching an appropriate amount of yeast, oxygenating an appropriate amount and at the appropriate time and controlling the temperature of your fermentation precisely, you may/will end up with a harsh brew.

 

[Reman]

I'm planning on doing a Barleywine this weekend, and to save on yeast issues I'm going to pitch onto a current batch of APA once it's finished. It's WLP009 aka Coopers and after doing some research should take 9-12% OK.

My plan is to basically do a big APA so it's 100% ale malt to 1.100 with Vic Secret and Summer for hops to 100ibu.

 

[Dave70]

thanks danestead, yeast calculator.. OMG.. I didn't even know they existed.. I will check it out and follow your advice. But the thought of oxygenation of yeast, I would know how to do that, I only have limited equipment.

I've been looking at a lot of hops tonight..

I already have a packet of BSAAZ and a Packet of Nelson Sauvin Flowers.. I don't know if they would be useful in this or not.

I have been looking at Ella and Helga and Topaz.. and also keep getting drawn to Summer.. and I don't know if these would be useful.. am I on the right track here?

would the wy1056 be a good option for this?

If you're tip toeing you way into the whole beer as strong as wine thing don't forget the Belgians. Strong ales are a piece of piss, Pilsner malt, a shake of noble, hops, sugar - plain old non inverted, straight from the bag white - and a muscular yeast like 1388. You know for sure a yeast like that will punch its way to 13% without issue, so no heartache with stalled beers or yeast behaving badly.
In the past I've tended to bottle mine and started drinking them basically as soon as they cleared, from memory around six weeks, delicious, but the ones I had at six months or so made me wish I'd hung on. These were about the 9.5% mark.
I dunno, barley wine just seems to me like a bit of hodgepodge and an exercise in taking an ale where it was never really meant to go, whereas Belgians were designed that way from the ground up.

On the flip side, I cant think of a style that hides it's ABV like a Belgian strong. Self control goes out the window quick smart. Thats about when that third longneck starts signing its siren song from the fridge.

 

[Chookers]

hmmm.. Dave70, strong ales you say.. ok I will give those a good look at..

This does seem to be a complicated endeavour to get to a Barley Wine, but the recipe I initially referenced sounded much simpler than what I have been reading in this topic.. Makes me wonder how they ever made it in the olden days.

But, I don't want to go to the expense of getting these ingredients if all I'm going to do is waste them.. I hate wasting good ingredients..

Even making a tiny batch like 4L, I would be interested just to bottle something to stick under the house to forget about, just so I rediscover it when its awesome.

I got 5 x 5L demijohns..

but I know making such small batches is not very efficient.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I'm thinking out loud golden syrup. Hey, Barley wine is of strongness,ness, anyway. I know this new Golden Syrup I have is fully yummy. Its only as the alternative to whatever that sugar stuff is in the original recipe. That's what I'm gonna do anyways.

 

[antiphile]

And if you're a White Labs man (or have easier access to them), don't forget WLP545 (Belgian Strong Ale). It is a real beast! I did a Belgian Imperial Stout with it and it just seemed to keep working (from memory it got down to 1.006).

 

[Danscraftbeer]

1.006?!!! That sounds good to me. Dry? how can it get that term when its so wet and refreshing. B)

 

[antiphile]

Your surprise, danestead, sent me scurrying back to the batch spreadsheet. It was only an itsy-bitsy fib (thank heavens). OG 1.077, FG 1.007.

 

[Chookers]

super dry and super wet..

I suppose the golden syrup would be in place of the inverted sugars?

What kind of flavours do you get from the WLP545?

 

[danestead]

Your surprise, danestead, sent me scurrying back to the batch spreadsheet. It was only an itsy-bitsy fib (thank heavens). OG 1.077, FG 1.007.

I think I missed something. What did you lie about?

 

[manticle]

Methinks antiphile mistook danscraftbeer for danestead.
A little up the page, danscraftbeer met the claim that antiphile's beer hit 1006 with a surprised exclamation.
The real fg was in fact 1007 (coincidentally the serial number of one of my favourote wyeast products), thus leading antiphile to apologetically admit 1006 was a false number.

Or something like that.

 

[freelander2002]

I have brewed this one several times and it always comes out nice after only 2 ish months in the bottle. Adjust for your own setup.... its a cross between a old ale and a barley wine. Long storage will promote barley wine's typical "wine" taste.

http://www.7fjellbryggeri.com/brewourgamlehaugenoldalevintage2014

Recipe: 7Fjell Gamlehaugen
Brewer: 7 Fjell
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Old Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30,0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 29,00 l
Post Boil Volume: 24,95 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23,00 l   
Bottling Volume: 21,00 l
Estimated OG: 1,084 SG
Estimated Color: 42,9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 48,1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 87,4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
6,21 kg               Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett)  Grain         1        81,8 %        
0,33 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118,2 EBC)   Grain         2        4,3 %         
0,33 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (236,4 EBC)   Grain         3        4,3 %         
0,33 kg               Caramunich Malt (110,3 EBC)              Grain         4        4,3 %         
0,07 kg               Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1000,8  Grain         5        1,0 %         
0,33 kg               Brown Sugar, Dark (98,5 EBC)             Sugar         6        4,3 %         
43,02 g               Horizon [12,00 %] - Boil 60,0 min        Hop           7        42,7 IBUs     
22,37 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5,00 %] - Boil Hop           8        4,6 IBUs      
22,37 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5,00 %] - Boil Hop           9        0,8 IBUs      
2,0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         10       -             


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 7,58 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Protein Rest      Add 18,93 l of water at 54,0 C          50,0 C        30 min        
Saccharification  Heat to 68,9 C over 15 min              68,9 C        30 min        
Mash Out          Heat to 75,6 C over 10 min              75,6 C        10 min        

Sparge: Fly sparge with 17,34 l water at 75,6 C

 

[Chookers]

freelander2002, looks like a good recipe.. think it could work as BIAB?

I can only do BIAB.. so Im trying to see how far I can go with it..

I am curious about the brand differences in barley.. I have only used Joe White up to now.. is there much difference between brands?

 

[manticle]

Yes there is a difference.
Depends on beer style and palate as to how significant and preference is individual but weyermann vienna is very different to joe white vienna for example.

 

[freelander2002]

freelander2002, looks like a good recipe.. think it could work as BIAB?

I can only do BIAB.. so Im trying to see how far I can go with it..

I am curious about the brand differences in barley.. I have only used Joe White up to now.. is there much difference between brands?

If your kettle can take the grain bill yes 7,3 kg is quite big for a 23 batch, but you can also do a double mash with 2x 3,5 kg ish if you have control of the temperature steps.

Sorry for the typeo's , english are not my native tounge