Ice Beer

[brando]

Guys,

Just viewed the Basicbrewing podcast on making ice beer (episode 20 feb 09).

Anyone tried it?

These blokes made 20% alcohol beer using the ice method, using a barleywine base.

 

[marlow_coates]

There was a topic on this a while back I think, which got me interested in trying it, but can't remember if there was much technical info in it or not. What are you planning on using as the base?

They spelt it 'Eisbier', which should hopefully yield some results.

Marlow

 

[brando]

Guys,

Just viewed the Basicbrewing podcast on making ice beer (episode 20 feb 09).

Anyone tried it?

These blokes made 20% alcohol beer using the ice method, using a barleywine base.

On reflection, I should elaborate - it involves making a strong alcohol beer (around say 10%), then freeze the fermented product and then let it thaw slowly, collecting the concentrated product first separate to the watery byproduct. Probably haven't explained real well.

 

[brando]

There was a topic on this a while back I think, which got me interested in trying it, but can't remember if there was much technical info in it or not. What are you planning on using as the base?

They spelt it 'Eisbier', which should hopefully yield some results.

Marlow

Marlow, this will be down the track a bit for me I think, considering that I've only done a couple of AG's so far, so still pretty novice.

First I'll try an Imperial IPA at around 8%, followed by a barleywine around 10%, then I'll consider doing the barleywine again and try the ice beer concentration approach.

Interesting concept I think.

 

[manticle]

On reflection, I should elaborate - it involves making a strong alcohol beer (around say 10%), then freeze the fermented product and then let it thaw slowly, collecting the concentrated product first separate to the watery byproduct. Probably haven't explained real well.

Try and get your hands on a bottle of schneider's aventinus eisbock to see what you're aiming for.

 

[marlow_coates]

Sounds tasty Brando,

Due to difficulties (that can of course be overcome) with brewing heavy AG beers, it may pay to trial an extract brew to see how it all goes, before putting in the effort of an AG. Would also iron out any kinks in the process and make it easier when the 'real deal' comes along.

Good luck

Marlow

 

[felten]

The jamil show also has a podcast on this, well worth listening to.

 

[Fourstar]

I did this accidentally with my Smoked Maple brown ale... concentrated syrupy deliciousness! I also believe Newguy has made one as well, maybe he can chime in with details.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

there are some details of Eisbier and ice-'distilled' cider on this guys blog. a good read.

 

[newguy]

I've made an eisbock and I've also made an eis wee heavy. The procedure is very simple, just freeze a fermenter/keg of uncarbonated beer, then somehow separate the unfrozen portion from the ice. I've done both of mine by freezing full kegs, then transferring from the keg's liquid out fitting into another keg. Once transferred, force carbonate and bottle. I've found that only 24 hours in a normal freezer set @ -19C is enough. I've also discovered that it's best to let the keg warm at room temperature for about an hour before you attempt the transfer to allow the ice in the keg's dip tube a chance to melt a bit otherwise you won't be transferring much.

Eisbock thread.
Eis Wee Heavy thread.

Finally, I'd like to caution anyone not to 'eis' a barleywine or Russian imperial stout without trying it on a single bottle first. Perhaps freeze an underfilled bottle (to avoid the issue of the bottle bursting) and have a taste of the concentrate. Freezing concentrates everything - alcohol, sweetness, and bitterness. There's a reason why bocks are traditionally 'eised'.

 

[hazard]

I've made an eisbock and I've also made an eis wee heavy. The procedure is very simple, just freeze a fermenter/keg of uncarbonated beer, then somehow separate the unfrozen portion from the ice. I've done both of mine by freezing full kegs, then transferring from the keg's liquid out fitting into another keg. Once transferred, force carbonate and bottle.

OK, what if you don't use kegs - if the fermenter was frozen (probably partially frozen would be best), and ice removed, then beer thawed and bottled, would the yeast be in any state to subsequently carbonate the bottles?

 

[Swinging Beef]

Try to get a taste of an eisbock or two before you brew 10 or 20 litres of that shit.
Its an acquired taste, that I have no intention of acquiring.
I think Eisbock is the only style of beer I found to be almost unpalletable. heavy, syrupy, cough medicine like.

 

[brettprevans]

+1 for beef's comment. try before you buy (so to speak). if youve got some PET bottles freeze one (lid off) and then drink the unfrozen liquid. now admittedly it wont be carbed but you'll get an idea. rough as guts version but sort of simialr. maybe try a commercial version as well.

 

[technocat]

I have enjoyed Hungarian Eiswein but some how Eisbock doesn't have the same appeal.

 

[crundle]

I had a fermenter or two start to freeze up on me while crash chilling prior to kegging, so you can concentrate the beer in the fermenter quite well. It wasn't intentional though.

Crundle

 

[newguy]

OK, what if you don't use kegs - if the fermenter was frozen (probably partially frozen would be best), and ice removed, then beer thawed and bottled, would the yeast be in any state to subsequently carbonate the bottles?

If you freeze the fermenter, it would be best if the fermenter had a tap. If nothing comes out of the tap, heat it up a bit with a hair dryer to get things moving. If your fermenter doesn't have a tap, try putting some sort of tube in it before you freeze so that the tube can be removed, providing a well of sorts in the ice for you to insert some tubing or a racking cane.

As others have said, try some eis-anything before you commit to making a lot of it. Some people really like it, others hate it. If you like sweeter things like port or an icewine, chances are you'll like an eisbeer. But as I said earlier just be careful with what you choose to freeze as freezing concentrates bitterness too.

Edit: forgot to address your yeast question. Chances are not even champagne yeast will do anything once you concentrate your beer. Bottle it uncarbed is your only option without a kegging setup. Consider that a really strong syrupy sweet beer wouldn't really be all that appealing highly carbed as well.

 

[Bribie G]

AFAIK, concentrating alcohol by freezing is illegal in Australia, and is regarded as a variation of distilling (you know all those people who are distilling water and herbal essences etc )

 

[brettprevans]

hmm i'd like to see a source there bribie. an offical source. as you can ferment beer thats 20% and its legal. well actually it might not be by definition as its illeagal to make spirits and the definition of a spirit usually starts around 20%.

either way before making the statement i want some evidence. not that the Goivt would give 2 hoots about a homebrewer making eisbier since no one enforces the 20L a week law either.

 

[Bribie G]

hmm i'd like to see a source there bribie. an offical source. as you can ferment beer thats 20% and its legal. well actually it might not be by definition as its illeagal to make spirits and the definition of a spirit usually starts around 20%.

either way before making the statement i want some evidence. not that the Goivt would give 2 hoots about a homebrewer making eisbier since no one enforces the 20L a week law either.

I've read it heaps of times in various contexts but your'e right, I cant find a ref via Google at least, I suppose you could do a 'wash' along the lines of strong ginger beer with 10 percent abv and then gradually ice it to get it as strong as you like. Wouldn't suit me, to this day all spirits taste like petrol to me after nearly killing myself on two bottles of scotch when I was 18 :icon_vomit:

 

[brettprevans]

yeah i did a google search and saw some stuff saying that it was illegal but couldnt find an actual source. inteesting none the less.