I think I'm Going to Stop Trying to Reculture Yeast

[Yob]

FB, while I dont dispute the results you seem to be experiencing, getting an accurate count is pretty damn simple and repeatable,

Different strokes though and all that, maybe ill change my tune in years to come but I really enjoy the freezing and stepping up (on a plate of course)

25ml compact frozen yeast to 500ml to 2000ml always gives about 100ml compact yeast, that yeast is fresher than any vial or smack pack and while more time consuming (by such a small factor) is pretty rewarding and repeatable

 

[mje1980]

Oh man top cropping is IMHO the best way to do it. Especially uk ales. However it needs a bit of planning. If I had a fermenting room, that's all i'd ever do.

 

[Forever Wort]

The system I have used for the last few months is similar to some of the posters here. I will split a purchased yeast into three or four vessels and get the cell count up. Then into the freezer. When I want to use one, I take two out of the freezer, warm one up to pitch, then split the other into the now empty vessel, get the cell count up on both, again freeze. This way I always have a few vials of my two house yeasts. Tastes have been consistent thus far and I don't fart about mad scientist-like with the numbers.

However, when it comes to experimenting with new yeasts (and most of them are still new to me given I have only been brewing for a year) I will split the packs but not keep the generations going. I have enjoyed a lot of the yeasts I've tried but I only need regular access to the ones I regularly brew with.

 

[MastersBrewery]

I think best practice is to use a starter where and when ever possible, so with this in mind, splitting a liquid yeast pack, and freezing them seems to me a logical step. Stir plates, flasks and such aint cheap why not use them to their potential. It would seem a day or two of planing ahead of the brew is required and most of us are not brewing on the spur of the moment. I could be brewing today, but can't be arsed chasing up some yeast and I've known for a week today would be free to brew if I wanted to brew.

ATM I don't have my **** sorted enough to split, freeze and step, but it's in the plan.


MB

 

[Eagleburger]

I split a pack like so;

1 X 50ml for immediate use and subsequently wash and reuse a few times.

5 X 10ml in fridge for when the first portion is discarded.

10 X 750ul that are placed in freezer for the future.

Just got a 10L pressure cooker off gumtree for 20bux and have my aeration sorted.


I am keen to try step fermentation. Instead of making a huge starter for 50L of Lager, start off with a 50ml yeast slurry into say 5L of wort. ferment at 10degC then after 2 days dump it into 45L at 10degC. Any comments?

 

[QldKev]

Nothing wrong with yeast farming, but I'm another ex-yeast farmer. It was fun while it lasted, but for the effort it wasn't rewarding. I still reuse yeast cakes, and when I want a new yeast I pitch a fresh one. Makes my brewing life easy for me.

 

[fletcher]

yeah i don't see it as being an argument, it's just whether you want to or not. there's no wrong or right. i think it's fun to understand and learn the process but i find it too time consuming

 

[dicko]

I live 600 odd kilometers from any brew shop that sells liquid yeast and the dried yeast in our town that is available is stored on a hook on a shelf in a hardware store so, at this stage i have little choice but to reculture or yeast farm at times.
With the new range of dried yeasts that are becoming available my need for farming may drop off as I try the different varieties but there are yeast varieties that I have come to like and these are the ones that find a spot in my "tuppaware" farm.

I intend to follow Yobs instruction and store some under glycerine in the near future as most of my failures with yeast have come from reculturing split packs that are getting a bit long in the tooth.

Apart from incorrect storage, sanitation is the hardest thing to comply with for yeast farming.

I split packs make starters and co ordinate my brewing so that I may re pitch slurry from a recent previous brew.

I have given away yeast washing as it is relatively risky as far as contamination is concerned and it is time consuming.
What I do now is swirl the slurry in the fermenter with the absolute minimum amount of beer left on the top and decant 400mls of that into a 500 ml schott bottle, label it and store it in the fridge for generally no longer than 14 days. I then pitch this slurry directly into the next brew that is suitable for that yeast variety.
My fermentations have improved out of site since I went 02 injection in my wort at pitching time.

Horses for courses, if I lived close to a HB shop that could supply quality liquids then I may not bother with most of the above. While I have to pay freight on a packet of yeast I am committed to the above due to the cost savings.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

For me it isn't the farming that annoys me (in theory) but the stepping up. I couldn't be bothered.

I'll take slurry and repitching if I'm brewing a similar style and I have top cropped an AIPA onto an IIPA with excellent results. But if it's not immediate (or within a couple of months), I wouldn't be bothered.

Having said that, I am fairly stylistically narrowed and there are only about 3 wet yeasts that really I need regularly and with me finding a sweet spot for T58, that may go down to two (once a side by side is done).

 

[menoetes]

Hot damn Carniebrew, that's a good process! Kinda wish I had thought of it myself. Classic K.I.S.S. principle.

It would sure save all that harvesting and washing mess. A fair portion my recycled yeast is still hoppy trub when I throw it into my new starter as I don't like washing the harvested crap more than twice (I fear I lose too much yeast that way). It can give me quite a dark krausen while on the stir-plate.

 

[manticle]

I don't really consider top cropping 'reculturing'. I love the results of top cropping.
Instant, fresh active starter.

I love active starters too - almost every brew gets one.

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

I was going to get a lab separating funnel thing to make it easier I have been freezing yeasts and using washed yeasts for a while,

Then I just thought why not bottle 12 stubbies and put them aside from each brew, I sanitise then purge the bottle with CO2 then fill with beer and leave them in a nice dark out of the way spot, when I need a yeast I drink the beer and chuck the yeast from the bottle in a flask and away we go again, easiest way ever less risk than washing and way less stuffing around

 

[Yob]

I was going to get a lab separating funnel thing to make it easier I have been freezing yeasts and using washed yeasts for a while,

Then I just thought why not bottle 12 stubbies and put them aside from each brew, I sanitise then purge the bottle with CO2 then fill with beer and leave them in a nice dark out of the way spot, when I need a yeast I drink the beer and chuck the yeast from the bottle in a flask and away we go again, easiest way ever less risk than washing and way less stuffing around

cleaning, sanitising and purging 12 bottles is less work than rinsing/freezing?

...Bollox to that

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

When you take into account total time taken, if you clean bottles properly and store in a clean place after use after use, quick splash of no rinse sanitiser quick blast of CO2 bobs yer uncle no time at all compared to waiting for trub to settle when washing

and the most important part you get to drink the beer to liberate the yeast from its malty captive to go about doing more fermenting goodness :kooi:

 

[DUANNE]

I'm another quitter. I don't brew enough anymore to bother with reculturing and with the price of yeast coming down as much as it has I usually just pitch two vials instead of farting around with a starter unless I'm doing something big or a lager.working between 50 to 60 hours a week spare time is at a premium so it works for me, less time wasted and next to no chance of accidentally introducing an infection to a beer I've spent a full day brewing.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Dry yeast for the win!

 

[manticle]

No

 

[klangers]

I've had a go at bottling the slurry left over from a ferment (is this "top cropping"?) and it worked very well on the brew I made 1-2 months after that.

Generally though I won't bother because refrigerated space is at a premium and I rarely make the same style consecutively.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

That's more a classic slurry repitch.

Top cropping is scraping (sanitary of course) from the active krausen (the happiest most buoyant yeast) and pitching it into a fermenter of wort waiting to be inoculated.

BRY97 (another classic lagger) takes off like a flamin rocket when you do this.

 

[mje1980]

Yep, top cropped pitched yeast gets going quickly and violently !!

 

[klangers]

Ah thanks, makes perfect sense!

I guess it's most used for splitting batches or for those who have multiple fermenters.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

As a side point. With Bunnings having the plastic water drums for $15-$20 for a 20-30L drum, there is no excuse for even the tightest brewer (like me) to not own multiple fermenters.

I didn't use it for splitting a batch, I had an APA in the fermenter going off, I brewed an an IPA and needed it to be done fast, and with top cropping I can get two batches from the one packet, before I even need to look at taking the trub. In this instance it was part $$, part healthy yeast (I wanted no major esters in a high grav beer) and part time (I shaved about 4 days off, I reckon, given it was a very high grav beer).

2 batches from the one packet - at $5 a packet, you only need to do it 3 or 4 times to pay for that extra fermenter. If it's liquid, even less.

 

[carniebrew]

Ah thanks, makes perfect sense!

I guess it's most used for splitting batches or for those who have multiple fermenters.

Not only. You can top crop into something like a sanitised jar/container, and keep it in the fridge for your next batch. I do this a lot with 3068...wait until fermentation is about 50% complete (doesn't take long on a properly aerated & pitched 3068 batch, often less than 2 days) then top crop (skim) once and discard (the "dirt" skim), wait half a day or so, then skim again and put it in the fridge. Once it's settled, I decant most of the wort, and transfer into a 50ml test tube, which helps me work out (roughly) how many cells I have. Less important with something like American Pale Ale yeast, where pitch rates (within reason!) don't appear to have the same effect on the end flavour, but critical IMO for weizens.

Good reading on it here: https://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm, which includes a pic helping you estimate cell count by the volume of the yeast solids:

 

[hoppy2B]

Not only. You can top crop into something like a sanitised jar/container, and keep it in the fridge for your next batch. I do this a lot with 3068...wait until fermentation is about 50% complete (doesn't take long on a properly aerated & pitched 3068 batch, often less than 2 days) then top crop (skim) once and discard (the "dirt" skim), wait half a day or so, then skim again and put it in the fridge. Once it's settled, I decant most of the wort, and transfer into a 50ml test tube, which helps me work out (roughly) how many cells I have. Less important with something like American Pale Ale yeast, where pitch rates (within reason!) don't appear to have the same effect on the end flavour, but critical IMO for weizens.

Good reading on it here: https://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm, which includes a pic helping you estimate cell count by the volume of the yeast solids:

sedimentation.jpg

You're not meant to aerate if you want esters from your 3068. At least that's the general consensus. From my understanding though, aeration produces a greater amount of yeast and rapid yeast growth is responsible for ester production.
Do you aerate your 3068 batches Carnie, and what sort of results do you get?

 

[carniebrew]

You're not meant to aerate if you want esters from your 3068. At least that's the general consensus. From my understanding though, aeration produces a greater amount of yeast and rapid yeast growth is responsible for ester production.
Do you aerate your 3068 batches Carnie, and what sort of results do you get?

I hadn't heard that one hoppy, which surprises me given all the reading I'd done chasing a true Weihenstephaner clone. I have always aerated all the batches I pitch liquid yeast on.

My current process certainly works for me, I love how my hef's come out. I'm already chasing ester production by under pitching (about 75% of what Yeastcalc tells me to use), then limiting those esters by fermenting low, so maybe the extra esters gotten by aerating are also helping?

Actually re-reading your post now...you're saying you're not meant to aerate if you want esters, but then you go on to say that aeration produces greater amounts of yeast, and that leads to more esters. So aren't those two statements contradictory? Aeration will produce more yeast, more rapidly, leading to more esters?

 

[hoppy2B]

There are conflicting reports on whether aeration increases or decreases ester production. That's why I was wondering what your results were like.

Most of the advice is not to aerate, but some evidence and the fact that rapid yeast growth and the fact that aeration increases the quantity of yeast produced, both suggest that aeration might increase esters. Go figure.

 

[ashley_leask]

I gave up trying to rinse yeast post fermentation, but I do still culture my own by growing a volume through stepped starters, then splitting into 4 or 5 test tubes and freezing with glycerine. I hated the rinsing process, could never seem to get it right and like you, wasn't really happy with the results. Other people manage it fine, but not me it seems.

The way I do it now, I'm working with yeast that has never fermented a full beer, no worries about hop material, large volumes of trub to rinse but I can still maintain my own library of the yeasts I use without having to worry about buying them every time I brew.

 

[antiphile]

G'day all

Please take note that any suggestions mentioned here are designed purely for beginners thinking about harvesting yeast. Almost everyone here is a lot more experienced than me and have much better techniques, but if you've wondered about trying it for the first time and want a simple way, this may be worth considering. I did this with one of the newer types of the Coopers fermenters, but should also work with most other types of fermenting vessels with a tap.
Yeast Harvesting for Dummies.

Cheers

 

[mckenry]

Another quitter as of today. ****** around for hours trying to separate WLP820 nicely. Plenty of cold break separation, sweet **** all white yeast. Did over 1.5L from the conical, so diluted in varying tests from 25% to 12.5% and still not seeing anything resembling a good yeast layer.
Maybe there's too much yeast in the cone, which doesnt come through. Its different to swishing around a plastic fermenter. My beer is now cold conditioning, (I'd hoped) without sitting on yeast cake. Not so sure now. I'd not be confident stepping this up to make another lager, thats for sure. Regardless, the farking effort is nowhere near worth it for me. If I was charging for my time, the amount of yeast I get back costs $240. ******** argument anyway I know, but I could have been kicking the footy with the kids, out riding my bike, cooking something, or maybe even sampling a few brews!

For $8 I'm going new each time from now on. I step up for 50L anyway, so a new vial works out at less than 7c / schooner.

 

[Midnight Brew]

Depending on the styles you're brewing Mckenry, could always select a few top cropping strains and keep them going quiet easily.