I think I'm Going to Stop Trying to Reculture Yeast

[yum beer]

Being stuck in a home brew vortex with the only way for ingredients being post it can get a little pricey always buying yeast.
So I collected and rinsed and stored my yeast, I bought a stir-plate and a drug lab sized flask, and all was good.
Now I'm brewing once every 3-4 weeks at most and rotating styles so stocks are getting old and less viable all the time.
No more....
I've found reliable supply of cheap liquid yeast...and a good supplier of grain...
now I just buy in what I need fresh for each batch and don't worry about the extra dollars......

If I was brewing more regularly, or making repeat batches.... for sure.

 

[fletcher]

i think it's a great thing to do to get familiar with it, and then adjust it based on your brewing (which is what i can see a lot of people here in this thread seem to be doing). eg, if you only brew once in a blue moon, why bother, of if you brew every now and then and really love a particular strain, then why not?

i've got a bunch in the fridge i haven't used for a while, or that i've been given, and i know i'll get to them, but i'll agree with a stir plate it's much easier. without one, i wouldn't be assed.

 

[Kingy]

When I get liquid yeast I collect 3 vials from the packet to stow away for later. then make a starter with the rest to use now. After that's finished fermenting I rinse some of the yeast and collect 2 jars of about 75gms. Make starters with them on stir plate and use them for the next couple brews, similar style. Then start me vials as needed also. Stir plate is the go but.

 

[Screwtop]

Went through the whole yeast bank/reculturing/washing/splitting/everything many years ago and agree with FB and others. Have tasted many beers over the years from other brewers with "that yeast issue taste". When you ask what yeast they have used the reply is always the same - something other than fresh liquid or dried yeast. The sterile environment, equipment and techniques required to get it right are not always available or adhered to by the average home brewer.

I want much more than cheap beer, I want good beer with no hint of yeast issues. Have settled on M44 for most pale ales, easier than liquid, pitched at the correct rate it produces very clean beer.

Screwy

 

[Weizguy]

Well, excuse me dear yeast culture naysayers.

I like to have the option to grab the yeast I want from my collection, when I want it.

Having said that, I have some yeast that I have cultured, that otherwise may not be available too. King & Barnes festive ale, Matilda Bay Real Ale, maybe a few others.

On the other hand, I agree that some yeast varieties are a lot of work, like the wheat varieties that I prefer for my weizens. Always interesting to try and predict the results of fermentation.

For me, it's a no-brainer, but you guys do what you want.

FB, what size are your autoclavable vials, and how much are you gonna need from me to part with them?

Les out

 

[mje1980]

Really, I see both sides of the argument, and have gone through periods of just buying fresh yeast, when I could have recultured. The stir plate gives me enough consistency to be confident about reviving old yeast. But, yeah, when brewing infrequently it's not a bad idea to just buy fresh and do a "run" of similar styles.

 

[Fat Bastard]

For me, it's just about controlling the variables. I'm happy with making starters on the stir plate, I'm happy using somewhat aged yeast from a facility that is equipped to ensure a reasonably accurate cell count to begin with and I'm somewhat happy to split a vial or smack pack for multiple use.

Where it falls down for me is the process of estimating the cell count in washed slurry. I can rinse the yeast in clean boiled water, but it's beyond my capability to get an accurate estimate of the number of yeast cells in the washed slurry. I get dodgy, yet non quantifiable tastes in most brews I've done this with and I've kept notes, so I've got some sort of empirical evidence for it too. This is despite using the calculators online.

I'm not at a stage in my brewing career where I brew lots of different beers with lots of different yeasts, I'm more or less targetting a handful of recipes using a limited number of yeasts so I'm probably noticing subtle variations where the more catholic brewer wouldn't. I'm also at a stage where repeatability is probably more important to me than anything else bar the standard new brewer mistakes with sanitation and process.

As an aside, I'm fairly flabbergasted to find how many of my fellow brewers agree with me. I thought re-using yeast was pretty universal!

 

[Blind Dog]

As an aside, I'm fairly flabbergasted to find how many of my fellow brewers agree with me. I thought re-using yeast was pretty universal!

Don't see why you'd be flabbergasted. It's a kerfuffle with limited reward unless the yeast is hard to come by or you enjoy doing it. I can see the attraction, have done it for a while, but won't be doing it much for a while at least.

 

[carniebrew]

I don't bother with slurrys or top cropping any more. When i get a new yeast pack of something I reckon I'll use again, I tend to build the starter so that it's about 100b cells over what I need, e.g. if I need 180b I'll use Yeastcalc to calculate a starter that'll be 280b. Then I'll split off the extra 100b into a sterile vial and put that away for next time. I find it a lot easier and more accurate than collecting/rinsing/estimating from a fermenting/fermented beer.

 

[black_labb]

I reculture in the form of top cropping yeast from one brew to the next. I'll get a few cubes ready to ferment on the same yeast and topcrop the yeast, usually onto ~1L of wort (collected from what's left in the whirlpool settled overnight in a tall vessel and then sterilised). I'll usually get 2-4 beers from one yeast that I will have go through the fermentation cycle soon after each other and bottle/cask 2 batches at once saving time. I don't brew often but when I do I'll do a few batches at once to take advantage of the simplicity of top cropping. I brew mostly english ales and some belgians meaning it is easy to choose a suitable yeast for flavour and ability to be top cropped.

But storing and reculturing yeast? fageddaboudit

One thing I don't understand is why people insist on doing starters in small vessels unless using a stir plate. My starters are all done in the fermenter and the final beer pitched on top saving on sterilisation and the risk of contamination during transfers.

 

[Yob]

FB, while I dont dispute the results you seem to be experiencing, getting an accurate count is pretty damn simple and repeatable,

Different strokes though and all that, maybe ill change my tune in years to come but I really enjoy the freezing and stepping up (on a plate of course)

25ml compact frozen yeast to 500ml to 2000ml always gives about 100ml compact yeast, that yeast is fresher than any vial or smack pack and while more time consuming (by such a small factor) is pretty rewarding and repeatable

 

[mje1980]

Oh man top cropping is IMHO the best way to do it. Especially uk ales. However it needs a bit of planning. If I had a fermenting room, that's all i'd ever do.

 

[Forever Wort]

The system I have used for the last few months is similar to some of the posters here. I will split a purchased yeast into three or four vessels and get the cell count up. Then into the freezer. When I want to use one, I take two out of the freezer, warm one up to pitch, then split the other into the now empty vessel, get the cell count up on both, again freeze. This way I always have a few vials of my two house yeasts. Tastes have been consistent thus far and I don't fart about mad scientist-like with the numbers.

However, when it comes to experimenting with new yeasts (and most of them are still new to me given I have only been brewing for a year) I will split the packs but not keep the generations going. I have enjoyed a lot of the yeasts I've tried but I only need regular access to the ones I regularly brew with.

 

[MastersBrewery]

I think best practice is to use a starter where and when ever possible, so with this in mind, splitting a liquid yeast pack, and freezing them seems to me a logical step. Stir plates, flasks and such aint cheap why not use them to their potential. It would seem a day or two of planing ahead of the brew is required and most of us are not brewing on the spur of the moment. I could be brewing today, but can't be arsed chasing up some yeast and I've known for a week today would be free to brew if I wanted to brew.

ATM I don't have my shit sorted enough to split, freeze and step, but it's in the plan.


MB

 

[Eagleburger]

I split a pack like so;

1 X 50ml for immediate use and subsequently wash and reuse a few times.

5 X 10ml in fridge for when the first portion is discarded.

10 X 750ul that are placed in freezer for the future.

Just got a 10L pressure cooker off gumtree for 20bux and have my aeration sorted.


I am keen to try step fermentation. Instead of making a huge starter for 50L of Lager, start off with a 50ml yeast slurry into say 5L of wort. ferment at 10degC then after 2 days dump it into 45L at 10degC. Any comments?

 

[QldKev]

Nothing wrong with yeast farming, but I'm another ex-yeast farmer. It was fun while it lasted, but for the effort it wasn't rewarding. I still reuse yeast cakes, and when I want a new yeast I pitch a fresh one. Makes my brewing life easy for me.

 

[fletcher]

yeah i don't see it as being an argument, it's just whether you want to or not. there's no wrong or right. i think it's fun to understand and learn the process but i find it too time consuming

 

[dicko]

I live 600 odd kilometers from any brew shop that sells liquid yeast and the dried yeast in our town that is available is stored on a hook on a shelf in a hardware store so, at this stage i have little choice but to reculture or yeast farm at times.
With the new range of dried yeasts that are becoming available my need for farming may drop off as I try the different varieties but there are yeast varieties that I have come to like and these are the ones that find a spot in my "tuppaware" farm.

I intend to follow Yobs instruction and store some under glycerine in the near future as most of my failures with yeast have come from reculturing split packs that are getting a bit long in the tooth.

Apart from incorrect storage, sanitation is the hardest thing to comply with for yeast farming.

I split packs make starters and co ordinate my brewing so that I may re pitch slurry from a recent previous brew.

I have given away yeast washing as it is relatively risky as far as contamination is concerned and it is time consuming.
What I do now is swirl the slurry in the fermenter with the absolute minimum amount of beer left on the top and decant 400mls of that into a 500 ml schott bottle, label it and store it in the fridge for generally no longer than 14 days. I then pitch this slurry directly into the next brew that is suitable for that yeast variety.
My fermentations have improved out of site since I went 02 injection in my wort at pitching time.

Horses for courses, if I lived close to a HB shop that could supply quality liquids then I may not bother with most of the above. While I have to pay freight on a packet of yeast I am committed to the above due to the cost savings.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

For me it isn't the farming that annoys me (in theory) but the stepping up. I couldn't be bothered.

I'll take slurry and repitching if I'm brewing a similar style and I have top cropped an AIPA onto an IIPA with excellent results. But if it's not immediate (or within a couple of months), I wouldn't be bothered.

Having said that, I am fairly stylistically narrowed and there are only about 3 wet yeasts that really I need regularly and with me finding a sweet spot for T58, that may go down to two (once a side by side is done).

 

[menoetes]

Hot damn Carniebrew, that's a good process! Kinda wish I had thought of it myself. Classic K.I.S.S. principle.

It would sure save all that harvesting and washing mess. A fair portion my recycled yeast is still hoppy trub when I throw it into my new starter as I don't like washing the harvested crap more than twice (I fear I lose too much yeast that way). It can give me quite a dark krausen while on the stir-plate.