I Feel Some Sake Action Coming On!

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pdilley

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I just finished building this box that will let me make Sake mould spores.

I have not been brewing for a while with the bee hive building and then buying property and organising architects and all the build-your-own home grief but I think I will get back close to my roots of working with fungi and start a project with a goal of nothing but making tons and tons of spores for making saccharified rice products which are the fundamental ingredient in making Sake.

I already have some Sake yeast from Ross so I'm itching to get back into brewing again and I think this is just the ticket to get me there!

I'll keep a progress tally on the mould production :unsure:



Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Ok I have tested the incubator with a loaf of bread and it works great!

Good news is temperatures I need to incubate Sake mould is lower than that needed to rise a loaf of bread.

If this works out I'll end up with 5 to 6 cups of Sake mould rice. When done I will take it to the next level and create spores so I can keep making Sake rice for the rest of my life :)

To make spores I have to make Sake rice and this is where most of you that don't like the idea of having clouds of mould spores around them will stop as this is where you freeze your Mouldy rice until needed to brew Sake!


Q. Why is mouldy rice needed?
A. Rice is not malted to saccharify so the yeast can eat the sugars.

Q. Does all the rice need to be mouldy rice to brew Sake?
A. No, just as with barley malt, their is enough converting power in the enzymes in the mouldy rice to convert normal
rice, you could push up to four times the volume converted!

Q. Mouldy rice sounds nasty, is it?
A. No, it's quite sweet and clean smelling, like chestnuts.

Ok you do get sulphur elephant farts smell in the first 24 hours of incubation but this gives way to a nice chestnut smell rapidly after the first day of incubation.


How to make:

I'm running out of battery so I'll keep it short.

We need to make proper steamed rice. Not rice made in a rice cooker or boiled on a stove! Do this and it will liquify into a mess when the mould starts growing.

Q. So how do you make steamed rice, proper steamed rice?
A. You wash the rice and soak in a container until it absorbs about 30-33% of it's volume in water. Then some muslin or coarse weave cloth in a cheap bamboo steamer will let you pour the rice on the cloth and gently steam the water soaked rice for the required one hour.

Q. Is rice type important?
A. Yes and no :) If making mould spores you can use any rice. If making Sake you want short grained rice. In old days gone by in Japan Sake was made from brown rice. The extra bran and nutrients made for a different tasting Sake than today. Today short grain white rice is used. You even get polished rice which will effect your ABV and flavour.

Q. Is real Sake clear?
A. No, all rice even white has remnants of bran and husk materials even if ever so slight. This imparts a yellow color to final Sake. Like modern fascination with filtering you can filter Sake to make it clear but like all brewers know, filtering removes flavoirs and aromas from the Sake. If you want clear Sake you might be better buying commercial megaswill Sake. Like home brew beer we like a final drink with flavour aroma and quality above the commercial offerings.

500ml of rice in a marked container. Once it reaches 500 * 1.33 which is approximately 670ml measurement line I will note the time. This will take about one hour or more.

Then steamer bamboo basket on a pot of water to steam the rice. Be sure to put enough water in the pot to keep the steam going this long.



To be continued...


Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Ok rice when finished is chewy to the bite but not dry and crumbly in the centre.

It is however so dry compared to what you are used to from a rice cooker or what you get in a restaurant you may worry that it is too dry. It stirs wonderfully with a few minimal kernels sticking together.

In the incubator with a jar of water and it's not really getting any drier which is a good thing.



Incubation report: 21 Hours of incubation.

Opened the incubator for the once every 10 hour stir of the rice (I'm not strictly adhering). If it was time for the weekend I would do it like a ritual but I'm not on holidays yet so I keep it as close as I can to every 10 hours.

I stir with a clean kitchen butter knife.
o open the incubator
o remove the tray (plastic cake round container)
o stir with knife mixing and moving the kernels around
Notes: I notice the rice has not dried out any more which is good as I was worried they would dry out completely to hard kernels and kill off the mould. I also noticed no sulphur smells which I was looking for but the styrofoam box has a strong styrofoam smell so that will be masking any delicate aromas as I might have caught a nutty aroma but it was weak under the chemical smell of the styrofoam. Hopefully near 40-50 hours when the mould gets stronger aroma I can settle my curiosity to if the mould is growing or not. No visual indications of mould growth but that should not be visible anyway until tomorrow.
o place the container back in the incubator on top of the temperature probe
o put the lid back on the incubator

Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
have you added any "seed" spores at all? or are you just relying on nature taking its course?
 
have you added any "seed" spores at all? or are you just relying on nature taking its course?

Forgot to add that in the post where battery ran out.

Seed spores added at 0 Hours in the process. Folks brought them from overseas as could not source any locally.



Report 31.5 Hours:

Woke to find the temperature 1 degree C higher than my setting on the TempMate. Good sign! We have life generating heat! The rice has an ever so minor and slight gray tint on it -- that or it's I've not drank any coffee this morning yet. Stirring was more difficult and looking at the side of the cake tin where a kernel of rice had stuck it had white fuzzy/cottony filaments around it! Mycelium growth!

Still no super nutty smells - to someone familiar with Mycelium growth I can say it definitely smells mycelium-like and maybe that's what laymen describe as nutty?

Little time left now to incubate Sake rice. Less than 20 or more hours until the rice should be 100 % covered in mould mycelium wrappings.


Chuffed!


Brewer Pete
 
Quick note. While easy to stir the rice before now it's a bit tougher from being stuck in the Mycelial mat growing over everything.

I just took the butter knife and sliced all down the cake container then sliced lines in the other direction make a hatch pattern. In small squares I went back to stirring with the flat blade of the knife and most rice broke up but a few were glued with mould filaments. I just sliced and worked them some more to break them up.

Then back in the incubator and TempMate down to 31.5/.5


Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Report 42H:

2 hours past due but can't be helped due to work. Arrived home to see a TempMate reading of 37.4C

Almost jumped that's higher than my limit of 35C which is near upper end of mould temp range.

A quick slice and mix with a kitchen knife and I looked at a clump of mouldy rice and said what the hell
Bottoms Up!
Chucked the chunk in my mouth and chewed. It's definitely sweet! Not in a sugar way but it's there. Also a bit mushroomy to me and still smells like Mycelium to me rather than nuts.

Worried that I may have let the temp kill the mould I sliced and mixed some more and chucked it back in the incubator over the sensor.

Right Now IT IS DONE... don't hold it back like I am doing, just chuck it in a pack (vacuum sealer if you got one on the hop buy craze) and bung this rice in the fridge for a few weeks or in the freezer for up to 3 months storage. And start planning to make Sake right away!


Ok what Im doing is an old mushroom trick to see if I can get it to make millions if not billions of spores for an endless supply of spore seed to make all future Sake with!

Water is out of the incubator and the jar emptied into the kitchen sink . I have left the lid open because it is already climbed up to 34.4 C already just sitting on the sensor even after cutting ip the dense mycelial mat that's grown over the rice.

I want to keep it below 35 C as much as I can.

Hopefully by tomorrow I'll know if it's survived and is making spores.


Advanced Note: The temperature of the koji mould growth on rice and the type of rice used are the factors that will influence the flavoirs and quality in the final Sake. This is the area to fine tune and adjust as a brewer.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

Ps I've thought of fan hookup to cold side of TempMate as cold control but think of spores on millions and billions being blown around the house. Should work if just making mouldy rice for Sake but not going on to the spore making step.
 
Hi Pete, just a note to say I'm enjoying this thread. Keep it up! looking forward to hearing the result.
 
At 46H:

Temp slowly dropped to 31.2 on it's own beforehand but just now see it's 33.0 so it survived and is living and regrowing after my chop chop mix session. :)

40C would be terminal so I'm in the safe zone. I cracked the lid and sat next to th TempMate for 15 minutes and watched it fight back and forth tween 33.0 and 33.1 and then solid stuck on 33.1 so thermo increase in spite of lid crack. Left tiny crackd lid and went to bed.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Very interested in seeing how you go with this. One of my home brew mags has a story on sake making and would love to give it a go.
 
Hi Pete, just a note to say I'm enjoying this thread. Keep it up! looking forward to hearing the result.

glad you are enjoying it mate, it's fun doing this so plan on joining in on the fun if this works out!

Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Very interested in seeing how you go with this. One of my home brew mags has a story on sake making and would love to give it a go.


I have a feeling already it's a go. Making mouldy sake rice is hopefully not to much effort. I did show a Chinese friend the writing for the spores and be wrote the Chinese symbols for the rice already moulded to show the local Chinese shop merchants. It comes out of Sydney already packed in small tubs in the refrigerator section. My local didn't have any but he gave me 3 shops to try.

Buying you only get the one brand or flavour dimension. Need to make your own eventually using this method to get full control over end results. The rice in the Sydney stuff most likely is not sake quality rice so your next step up is to make your own and control what rice goes into making the mouldy rice and sake.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
i was under the impression that just incubating koji and adding it to some more steamed rice wouldnt work (although you could use it for its enzymes for other rice)

"It needs to be understood that koji, while being a fungus, is not yeast. It's not possible to culture more of it by simply mixing some of a previous batch of koji with some steamed rice. It won't spread kernel-to-kernel like that, it's just not how it works."

(from http://www.taylor-madeak.org/index.php/200...omebrewing-sake )

you need to stress the mold, by letting it dry out slightly untill you see green spores form

or are you just makeing koji rice? and not tane-koji?
 
I have a feeling already it's a go. Making mouldy sake rice is hopefully not to much effort. I did show a Chinese friend the writing for the spores and be wrote the Chinese symbols for the rice already moulded to show the local Chinese shop merchants. It comes out of Sydney already packed in small tubs in the refrigerator section. My local didn't have any but he gave me 3 shops to try.

Buying you only get the one brand or flavour dimension. Need to make your own eventually using this method to get full control over end results. The rice in the Sydney stuff most likely is not sake quality rice so your next step up is to make your own and control what rice goes into making the mouldy rice and sake.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

Any chance of you posting a photo of those chinese symbols?? I'm pretty sure I would be able to buy the spore infested rice (red rice?) here - but don't know what to look for or how to ask for it.

I know that you can buy "chinese yeast" that contains the spores, some enzymes and a diastatic yeast (as well as sach serv) - and thats what you would use if you wanted to make chinese style rice wine... but sake is made slightly differently. You can also buy tubs of "sweet rice wine" which are essentially the same as amakaze (or what you get if you let kome koji go for a while) ... but once again, there is yeast present.

I think that if you go to specialty Japanese grocers... you can buy frozen Kome Koji... and with a bit of care you could get that to push out spores... or just use it straight to make the sake if you dont mind spending the cash.

Keep us posted Pete

TB
 
i was under the impression that just incubating koji and adding it to some more steamed rice wouldnt work (although you could use it for its enzymes for other rice)

Adamt - Also try G&G as they should have it listed for sale. By local I meant all my lhbs' don't stock and don't have it listed from their distributors.

absinthe - Bobs a great guy with good knowlegde, we've had a good talk on amylase and protease and saccharificatiob vs amino acid production and protein breakdown. That statement is correct within context but my mind would disagree and here's why. Mycelium spread through contact with food substance, they travel through it and spread, this is how the rice gets glued or perhaps better term woven together into clumps. If you've not got refrigerated, frozen, or stressed / old mould then you can do contact expansion of mycelium. This may not be traditional Japanese way but more lab way and how mushroom mycelium is expanded from lab to grow room beds to supermarket shelf. Making just spores and not using the rice for sake I can be less tradition adherent as making sake you want to saccharify but stop before any less desirable enzymes are produced in quantity that are not good for you. So it's good to say that for most situations and to people not familiar with mycelium cultivation. But his information is spot on and worth a study.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Any chance of you posting a photo of those chinese symbols?? I'm pretty sure I would be able to buy the spore infested rice (red rice?) here - but don't know what to look for or how to ask for it.

I know that you can buy "chinese yeast" that contains the spores, some enzymes and a diastatic yeast (as well as sach serv) - and thats what you would use if you wanted to make chinese style rice wine... but sake is made slightly differently. You can also buy tubs of "sweet rice wine" which are essentially the same as amakaze (or what you get if you let kome koji go for a while) ... but once again, there is yeast present.

I think that if you go to specialty Japanese grocers... you can buy frozen Kome Koji... and with a bit of care you could get that to push out spores... or just use it straight to make the sake if you dont mind spending the cash.

Keep us posted Pete

TB

麴菌, 麴霉菌, 曲霉菌 the last characters in each set tell of fungus-bacteria and the first describes it but we didn't know those bits.

The already made rice I have in a phone photo and only way to send is email on phone if you need asap pm addy to email. Otherwise when I get home I could xfer to computer.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Report 65H:

o Bloody sweltering 37.8C on way home from work
o Arrived home and no massive spore production *yet*
o Saw condensation on the cake container so let it sit outside in 32C indoor temp for over an hour to de-humidify
o Photo for prosperity
o Back in the box for final incubation



Incubator_Inside.jpg
Inside photograph of incubator showing rice in a plastic cake container.
Control board is for dumb-temperature control for bread rising when not making mould rice for Sake brewing.
Glass jar with water next to bulb for humidity inside the container when running.
The dumb mode light-dimmer assembly is bypassed when using the TempMate.
TempMate probe underneath cake container on bottom of incubator.
Rice SHOWN as just placed in incubator at 0H after inoculation with spores.



Incubator_Outside.jpg
Now you know why I call my incubator "My Own Personal Nuclear Reactor"
:lol:

Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
Incubator

+

Appropriately Steamed Rice with low moisture content


=


Mouldy Rice! (at the spore making stage too!)



KOJI_SPORE_MAKING.JPG
At 0H you think the rice is too dry and this will not work
At 65H you see how wet and sticky and translucent the rice gets from all the enzymes in the mould breaking the rice down



Ahhhh! Brewing!! Only Brewing will make you smile :p so much to see mouldy food. A joy for the senses from eye to tongue!
:lol:


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

EDIT: Do not eat nor use for brewing mouldy rice at the spore making stage -- let me say again, you no longer want to eat the mouldy rice or use it in brewing. The idea is to use mouldy rice up in sake or refrigerate or freeze it before the metabolism of the mould switches to spore production stage of the mould life cycle which starts to include the production a few acids and enzymes you don't really want to eat a lot of. So back at 40H plus a few hours depending on your rice type when its all fuzzy but not small spores being made yet, take it out of the incubator because YOU ARE DONE! its time to chill it to halt further grown and then switch to making actual Sake with it!
 
:icon_offtopic:
RedYeastRice.JPG


I think Thirsty wanted Red Yeast Rice --
Chinese is 紅麴米, 红曲米

This rice is high in statins so this is probably where modern drug labs got their cholesterol lowering drug from and of course charge a lot of money for. Probably easier just to eat a bit of this rice in your diet :)

Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 

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