Huh?

[Dave70]

This joint isn't the only forum I post on that's asking members to kick the tin lately.
When places like this teed off, unless you knew who Herbert A. Simon was, the phrase 'attention economy' was probably something unknown. Now big tech has entire departments devoted to gaming attention and maintaining engagement on their platforms. Niche, old school forums with aging members and precious little in the way of new blood will simply fade away.
Base a business on the ad revenue model instead of producing goods and services and that's the risk you run, it would seem. And a despicable model it is.

Point is there's really no one party to point the finger at, its just social media evolution. And some animals are very much on the endangered species list.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

This joint isn't the only forum I post on that's asking members to kick the tin lately.
When places like this teed off, unless you knew who Herbert A. Simon was, the phrase 'attention economy' was probably something unknown. Now big tech has entire departments devoted to gaming attention and maintaining engagement on their platforms. Niche, old school forums with aging members and precious little in the way of new blood will simply fade away.
Base a business on the ad revenue model instead of producing goods and services and that's the risk you run, it would seem. And a despicable model it is.

Point is there's really no one party to point the finger at, its just social media evolution. And some animals are very much on the endangered species list.

Agree with you on some points Dave, as you may well see there are are new brewers coming aboard but none of the forum members who were here to give the advice which was abundant just a few years ago. I was against the split to a new forum from the outset, mentioned it on here and over there.
As for the decline on this forum one has only to go back to the engagement of the moderators, both of which were instrumental in the evacuation of members from this forum to another forum. Since then looking back it is only since the two moderators were engaged that the decline of the forum came about.

 

[blacktop™]

Sounds like you should start your own forum!! You make it sound so easy.

Keg king can sponsor it and we can all live happily ever after!!

 

[Dave70]

 

[S.E]

as you may well see there are are new brewers coming aboard but none of the forum members who were here to give the advice which was abundant just a few years ago.

There are plenty forum member still giving advice WEAL. Do you see many questions go unanswered on here?

There are new members but I think they find most of what they need to know is already covered on here and elsewhere these days. I would bet most new brewers find all they need to know without joining.

Years ago there was a lot more to discuss amongst members, like building your own brewery or keezer etc. These days all you need to do is decide whether you buy everything from KK or KL. Then just make sure you ferment under pressure and never ever allow oxygen near your brew from fermenter to keg.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

There are plenty forum member still giving advice WEAL. Do you see many questions go unanswered on here?

There are new members but I think they find most of what they need to know is already covered on here and elsewhere these days. I would bet most new brewers find all they need to know without joining.

Years ago there was a lot more to discuss amongst members, like building your own brewery or keezer etc. These days all you need to do is decide whether you buy everything from KK or KL. Then just make sure you ferment under pressure and never ever allow oxygen near your brew from fermenter to keg.

You're missing the point Sean, there isn't enough traffic to encourage trade sponsors or to encourage supporting membership. This forum isn't just for our benefit alone, it is here to make money for the owner. To make money it needs to put bums on seats and be active, it's a case of use it or lose it. Looking at how active other forums are makes this one seem like it is standing still.

There is still more to actively discuss new ideas worthy of discussion, knowledge doesn't just come to halt, thirst for new knowledge is always there. Here is an example something I have been using, not just some homebrewer, but a credible homebrewer. If you think something is missing in your beers worth having a read and trying.
A Modern Method for Calculating IBUs - Brew Your Own

Sounds like you should start your own forum!! You make it sound so easy.
Keg king can sponsor it and we can all live happily ever after!!

It is easy, all it takes is promoting of discussion, diverse points of view. That's why it is called a forum.
Look on other forums, moderators take an active roll in promoting discussion not sitting on their hands waiting to delete a thread, its much the same as any business, it's no good just ticking over it has to grow, not decline.

 

[MHB]

Interesting, the thesis that is based on was delivered in 2005 and has been widely discussed over the last 18 or so years, even on here (see attachment).

Valid point tho, I would like to see a lot more discussion of processes and methods here (and elsewhere). There are a lot of factors that have contributed to the present state of AHB.
Personally I don’t find spewing about the moderators who do a pretty good job to my mind. Or the activities of some retailers helps a lot.
Mark

 

[Yt2]

This sort of discussion is making this new member look around to see what other forums there are out there.
Top this off with getting bombarded by the Administrator to coff up some cash is also a turn off.
It's not a good look fellahs...

 

[philrob]

I'm the sole moderator, as a volunteer. I do not ask for cash, ever. Not my function.
My authority is quite limited, unlike administrators, who have control of all functions of the forum.
All I really do is to approve new members and specific posts, (and I fix spelling errors in post to assist the search function).
I have not deleted or edited any post for at least the last couple of years, other than a couple of obvious spam posts. Hasn't been any need beyond that.

 

[MHB]

Personally I'm grateful for your efforts and wish WEAL would put a sock in it.
Mark

 

[Yt2]

I'm the sole moderator, as a volunteer. I do not ask for cash, ever. Not my function.
My authority is quite limited, unlike administrators, who have control of all functions of the forum.
All I really do is to approve new members and specific posts, (and I fix spelling errors in post to assist the search function).
I have not deleted or edited any post for at least the last couple of years, other than a couple of obvious spam posts. Hasn't been any need beyond that.

Hi philrob,
I have amended my post above, my apologies, I meant to say Administrator...
Got caught up in the moment as I had just received another message asking for cash.
Sorry mate, keep up the good work...

 

[Dave70]

This sort of discussion is making this new member look around to see what other forums there are out there.
Top this off with getting bombarded by the moderator to coff up some cash is also a turn off.
It's not a good look fellahs...

Bombarded?? Hardly. I got two PM's, from ADMIN, not a mod, issued my response and that was that.
I would agree cyberbegging without so much as opening the books leaves something to be desired.
Become a financial member today only to discover the joint has been Section 15a'd tomorrow?
Who knows?

I guess you then you need to decide on the forum experience that best suits your needs.
Theres troves of info on here from both professional and highly skilled armatures alike if you're willing to do a bit of digging and asking.
Follow advice given here and you will make good beer. What more do you need?

 

[randyrob]

I got the message and a follow up from the administrator and I replied but I haven't heard back from them

 

[GrumpyPaul]

I'm with @philrob - He does a pretty good job on his own and from what I have seen the moderation of late has been pretty light.

As for me - as an ex-moderator - I made a comment at some point about the endless tit for tat that I felt was annoying. From that comment I was asked to moderate - so I thought I'd give it a crack. Despite what many thought I never had any allegiances to either side I was simply hoping to to give back to the forum. I stepped away from moderating when the crap being levelled at me was too much - I was getting angry PMs (and txts to my phone) that I thought it's just a forum about beer.....it's not worth copping that ****.

Those that know me - know I'm pretty laid back, and probably the most ambivalent person around - I just don't give a **** about much in life at all. So to think I was a sneaky "plant" by one retailer or another with a cunning plan, or subversive plot is kind of funny - I just don't care that much at all.

For me the demise of the forum is a) most likely just the changing times and forums are not a well frequented as they used to be - lots more activity, albeit often wrong advice, on facebook groups, and b) to a large extent the conspiracy theorists on here that harp on about the moderation more than they contribute to quality brewing input.

If we all just talked about beer the world would be a much better place

 

[Reg Holt]

I think the point being made is the forum is in trouble and reasons suggested as to why, that's what it's all about. I too was a supporting member who posted on here regularly. After getting two post deleted for no good reason I didn't renew my membership and spend more time on other forums. Nothing to do with changing times, the forums I go on have ample postings each day, and for the record just posting about beer will definitely sink a forum.
Just have to look at the two sister forums in UK and USA, plenty of action but not all about brewing. A good example of moderating on those forums and others, where a differing point of view is tolerated, not deleted. Good count of supporting members on those too.
I haven't failed to notice that among all the posters on this thread there is not one single person who is a supporting member.

 

[philrob]

I'm a supporting member, and paid for from my own resources, not a handout.

 

[Reg Holt]

I'm a supporting member, and paid for from my own resources, not a handout.

That's prerequisite for being a moderator isn't it? Grumpy Paul was too while moderating, he isn't any longer.

 

[philrob]

Nope, was never requested. Only paid it recently.

 

[Reg Holt]

Nope, was never requested. Only paid it recently.

If the forum was more active maybe a lot more members would become supporting members, depends how much they want to keep the forum going. As you say you haven't deleted posts, it must have been Grumpy Paul who deleted them, must say I haven't had any posts deleted since he left the moderating post. Even though I have at times been critical.

 

[S.E]

You're missing the point Sean, there isn't enough traffic to encourage trade sponsors or to encourage supporting membership. This forum isn't just for our benefit alone, it is here to make money for the owner. To make money it needs to put bums on seats and be active, it's a case of use it or lose it. Looking at how active other forums are makes this one seem like it is standing still.

There is still more to actively discuss new ideas worthy of discussion, knowledge doesn't just come to halt, thirst for new knowledge is always there.

I don’t think I was missing the point WEAL. I was commenting on what you said above: ”but none of the forum members who were here to give the advice which was abundant just a few years ago”

I doubt that has any impact on the decline in forum traffic. There are still plenty forum member giving up to date advice so I don’t think the decline in posts is due to former members not responding. The (former members) advice is still there and covers pretty much every subject and can be found with a search, so I guess no need to post as many questions.

New ideas are still being discussed but there aren’t that many new ideas apart from the latest brewing gadgets from KK and KL.

 

[sp0rk]

I miss Bum and Nick...

 

[malt and barley blues]

I will miss weal. Yep they really know what they are doing the mod and administration team. Banning a member who was the most productive poster and kept the forum going after the exodus along with MHB myself and a few others. He got it back to being a busy forum with his bulk buys on malt, PRV's and the helix giving all the money he made to Children with Cancer. He shouldn't have turned down the mods position but said he couldn't be controversial as a mod and controversy is what makes people post. I have only just been allowed back after two years of being banned and I think that was so they could ask me for money.

 

[awfulknauful]

That's what they did with me! Released from the dungeon only to be asked for money! Must be getting desperate, you never know they may ask Bum, Nick and WEAL back in the hope of getting some financial return.
Used to like the EOI thread, could do with one now for grain.

 

[philrob]

WEAL is here as wide eyed and legless. (scroll back a few posts).

 

[malt and barley blues]

WEAL is here as wide eyed and legless. (scroll back a few posts).

I spoke to him today, his account has been suspended. Pretty low act after all he did for this forum in their time of need. When others were busy recruiting members from this forum to move over to another. But you know all about that.

 

[S.E]

I spoke to him today, his account has been suspended.

Don’t panic, WEAL will return. Account suspended is not a ban. Just time out in the naughty corner I believe?

Strange that philrob as moderator was not aware he had been suspended though, are you sure he was suspended from this forum?

 

[Grmblz]

This forum has been sanitised.
Open and frank discussion? Nope.
Controversial comment? Nope, and don't even think about criticising a certain companies product, no matter how well justified.
Robust debate? Nope.
WEAL #66 makes some very good points, I haven't always agreed with him, but nobody lost an eye, and isn't that what a forums supposed to be?
Something not discussed here is the cultural differences between us and the US, aussies tend to be fairly thick skinned and not particularly God fearing, the US is the polar opposite (broad generalisation) So it shouldn't come as a great surprise if our way of doing things offends some of their sensibilities, and as a result we get punished as if this was an American site, errr well ok it is, but it's NOT in America.
Long story short, back in my Landlord days we had a saying "punters will vote with their feet" in reality they were voting with their wallets.
I've just spent 5 min's looking at current threads and didn't come across a single supporting member, even though I recognise some names that used to be.
I guess the punters are walking down the road to another pub.
The assertion that this place is just for brewing is wrong imho, yes that should be the main topic but having a yarn or telling a joke (when was the last joke posted?) could and should be part of it, noobs need 101, intermediates need 102 or 5 whatever, the old hands want more, they're not here to just be primary school teachers, yes happy to do it, but without the camaraderie of their peers/mates they may as well be on FB.
Awful, M&B, good to see those avatars back, it's a bit like seeing a familiar face down at the local, although I fear the pub might be about to shut. Cheers G

 

[philrob]

News to me about WEAL. I've not deleted or redacted any postings since the wars of some years ago. I'm OK with frank debate, even criticism of myself. I don't care what others think of me, quite frankly, as it's almost invariably incorrect anyway. As I've said before, the moderators authority on here is quite limited. I have no control over any administrator functions or actions.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Is that "Gift Supporting" link at the bottom of each post new?

I accidentally clicked it while thumb scrolling and almost gifted @Grmblz a membership.

That would have been kinda comedic if I did.

 

[JDW81]

The posting on this forum has dropped off for a number of reasons (well, through my observations at least).

1: A lot of the old guard have moved on (either jumped ship, or no longer engage in the online brewing community)
2: Facebook and other sources of information have become more prominent, and have reduced this site's traffic
3: A lot of us are getting a bit older and busier with family/work, so something has to give (I certainly don't have the same number of spare hours I did a few years ago).
4: Australia has a limited population (compared to the USA/UK) and we just don't have the same number of brewers to divide between a number of forums
5: The well documented KK vs KL battle and the bickering between people who clearly had a vested interest in either party (this has certainly turned a number of people I know off the forum).
6: Quite a number of people I know have moved on from brewing for a variety of reasons (health, time, other hobbies, downsizing etc).

The moderator factor is not something that bothers me. I'm more than happy with the job they do (and it's an unpaid and thankless one). I'm sure they don't get it right all the time, but no one is perfect. Striking a balance between open and free debate and keeping this place civil is almost impossible, and I think (by and large) the moderators have kept a pretty good balance.

JD