Discussion in 'General Brewing Techniques' started by Jye, 30/3/08.
Gelatine + CC, bottled
I was just kegging my second batch of English bitter and using gelatin for the first time. I added the gelatin (1 teaspoon to 1 cup of water at 150F thoroughly mixed for about 10-15 mins) into the keg and filled it up with beer that had been cold crashed to 2c. Problem was I over filled the keg and beer overflowed from the keg, luckily I was in the garage as it spilled on to the floor. I noticed that there was a big clump of a jelly like substance amongst the spilt beer. This had me wondering if this was normal, should the gelatin clump together like this?
Seeing that I had lost some of the gelatin, I made another gelatin mixture with a similar method using only half a teaspoon of gelatin hopefully that will suffice?
This is my latest use of gelatin, mixed with stock and port and poured over an Ox tongue before pressing.
What about the chill haze effect with bottled beer?
That will still happen, I'd imagine?
I didn't find too much chill haze issue with gelatine but I did find that it made the yeast sediment fluffy and easily disturbed, as well as some of it actually sticking to the sides of the bottles which I thought rather defeated the whole purpose of using it at all. Maybe I didn't use it properly or the right amount or whatever but I switched to isinglass after a few frustrating batches, which has been much better for dropping out yeast and keeping the sediment compacted. I just use Polyclar for chill haze. I know some people are chemophobes and won't use PVPP in their beer because reasons but it bloody works, then falls out of the beer completely into the trub.
Get with the times, chuck the gelatin and use Biofine. 100% better.
Must admit I do like biofine clear. Just make sure you add when cold. So easy to use.
I bought some Isinglass but am yet to use it (mostly because I haven't yet looked up how).
Biofine and ClarityFerm in particular look pretty good though, I have a few gluten-sensitive people in my life (some gluten-intolerant) so I'd be keen to try both of those in my brews..
I think ClarityFerm is expensive for what it is. 8 bucks for a vial that only does one batch. I don't have any need for gluten reducing in my beers though, so for me personally it's not worth using. Biofine sounds pretty good though. May experiment with it at some stage.
I have the dry powdered isinglass. It's as simple as chilling some water in the fridge, usually I use about 200mL (can pre-boil it if you want), chucking in half to 3/4 of a teaspoon of the isinglass and whacking it on the stir plate for 20-30 minutes (or hand stirring if you haven't a stir plate). Then simply pour it into the beer.
I wouldn't add it to every brew but I might give it a crack on one just to see if they can tolerate it or not (nothing quite like experimenting on your friends)!
Ah right, I've got the pre-made solution.. which is fine but I'm unsure when in the ferment I supposed to add it. Also, apparently it doesn't last long once opened?!
You add it after the ferment when the beer is in the cold crash phase. I would imagine this goes for both liquid and dry versions. Not sure about the life of the liquid one; I've had my dry one for over two years although it'll need to be replaced soon as it's getting low. I just keep it in the fridge.
Edit, seems the dry one lasts forever if stored right:
· Vicfine Isinglass powder can be kept for an indefinite period if stored under cool, dry conditions.
· Vicfine Isinglass solution should be used within 24-36 hours of preparation and kept below 20c
to avoid denaturing the collagen.
I didn’t have much luck with the pre-made isinglass, but it may have been an old batch. I add about 30ml of biofine clear per keg which seems to do a good job. I bought a 500ml liquid container, which makes it convenient.
OK I use biofine, I C.C. for 7days and then rack and Biofine. C.C. for another 2-3 days. Great results..
I use Gelatin. CC then filter to a keg and toss genatin in the keg.
I make it in the microwave. 3/4cup water. Add teaspoon of granular gelatin.
30 seconds in the micro then temp check and stir.
This time of year another 20 seconds gets it to 70C.
Toss that into the full keg. Burp it and then gass it.
First 500ml is always the rubbish.
Works for me most of the time.
Does not remove chill haze.
Dude, barley is high in gluten. Unless you're making sorghum beers, you best not share them with any coeliac mates (enemies should be fine). Then again, a coeliac would know this and wouldn't drink your brews without asking what you make it with.
So I assume your friends are merely interested in eating "less" gluten? I'd still suggest they move to wine or water.
Bottom line is, why use a gluten free fining agent in a glutenous drink?
If you use Biofine there is not need to filter, my filter has not been used in 18 months. No need to add anything to the keg, pours perfectly clear first pour to the last. No trub in your lines and taps like gelatin.
I haven't had a need to filter with isinglass and polyclar either. It just sinks into the fermenter trub. Also get clear pours straight away although I usually discard the first 50-60mL. Better than wasting a pint though.
I am aware of these things - I have family that are coeliac and I would never offer them a gluten-reduced beer, but my wife and a couple friends are low FODMAP (do you know what this is?) and are gluten-sensitive, not intolerant, as in if they have too much it upsets them, causes bloating etc., but it does not cause long-term physical harm like coeliac disease. They already drink mostly wine but have mentioned numerous times that they'd love to have a beer that didn't upset their stomachs, hence my interest in making a gluten-reduced beer they could likely tolerate.
So yeah, my comments weren't in the interests of making beer for gluten-nazi hipsters, it's for people who have a genuine medical desire for a low gluten beer.
We speak the same language, I know the low fodmap diet well, I also know gut health in general. So I totally agree with your intentions.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood your intention with the finings, but maybe you did too. Clarex is an enzyme to go in at commencement of fermentation rather than introduced as a fining agent. Not a bad idea to reduce gluten if that's your intent (and I respect your efforts). However, I'd be very surprised if this can lower gluten to a level where it's suitable for someone with any sort of intolerance. The producer certainly doesn't guarantee any such thing.
With that said, we've got apples and oranges in question here. FODMAP management is a different model entirely. Wheat and barley make the list due to a high fructan content. This may not be affected by adding Clarex enzyme. Fructan is a carbohydrate where gluten is a protein. They're often confused as the symptoms of intolerance are similar.
Do you know which way your friends are trying to take their diet elimination? If they're not sure, I totally sympathise - I've been through this many times. But if I were you I'd triple check what they're really doing before suggesting they try low gluten beer.
I got 2 brews going to kegs on Friday. I see craftbrewers has it. Might grab some and give it a go.
Pushing beer through the filter not only takes a long time but uses gas too.
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