How clean is a fermenter

[nvs-brews]

hummmm, maybe i should start fermenting more in a corny... i was thinking a demijohn but i can fit so many more cornys in my fridge... and i have a few spare now..

 

[QldKev]

I clean the **** out of my fermenters when changing yeats. They still have a hoppy aroma. Probably why we don't store yeasts in plastic or zip lock bags, too venerable to infection.

 

[rude]

Yes they do, to be used as a SANITISER.

Different jobs for different chemical agents.

Sodium Percarbonate = CLEANER (breaks down organic matter)

10% Bleach/Vinegar Solution = DISINFECTANT

No Rinse Solutions = SANITISER
Disinfectants STOP bacteria and sanitisers SLOW down bacteria.
The scientific reason behind the difference of disinfectants and sanitisers is the dilution. Disinfectants must have higher capability for killing pathogenic bacteria compared to that of a sanitiser. According to EPA requirements a disinfectant must kill 99.99% or more of specified bacteria whereas sanitisers must kill at least 99.99% of three specified bacteria within a specified time period.
Disinfectants stop the growth of microorganisms.
Sanitisers reduce the amount of microorganisms to a safe level but cannot kill them since they don’t contain the killer chemical agent that a disinfectant does.

Lots to learn!

Screwy

I like that post Screwy
I use sodium perc to clean & this to disinfect

 

[QldKev]

So I should not wipe my dick on the curtains after sex or not? or does the Huwa-San make it ok

 

[rude]

Well if youre dick goes into youre fermenter then disinfect it for sure

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Lots to learn!

Screwy

Lesson 1: bleach belongs in the laundry, not the brewery.

 

[Brewman_]

Interesting topic.
Clean, sanitised and fit for brewing may be all different things.

Plastics.
First up I like plastics and I use them. You can clean these and sanitise all you like, but as mentioned they carry some aroma from previous brews. I have never found that an issue even when doing delicate beers, they still turn out great. But there is one exception to that I have found. The hop and malts flavours don't really taint the next beer, but if any Chlorine based cleaners / sanitisers have been used these can. It's only a marginal thing and it depends on how the chemicals are used and how sensitive the drinker is to the flavour / aroma. Not saying I would never use a chlorine based cleaner on plastic, but I would do it very rarely and never any time I was leading up to entering a competition. Rather stick to Sodium Perc or a brewery wash. Sunlight is a good sanitiser too, but most, nearly all brewing plastics are not UV stabilised, so they will go brittle very fast.
Infection. If I ever get an infection in plastic, I will dispose of every piece of plastic that has touched that brew. If you can smell your last beer in plastic, there's a good chance there's some infection in that material too even after all the cleaning and sanitising. I learnt this the hard way.

Stainless and Glass. I like these material and I use stainless, but I don't have glass. I find these fermenters, well the stainless ones I use clean up very nicely using the right cleaners and sanitisers. I don't find SS tainted from the flavours and aromas of the previous batches. I also use the same cleaners and sanitisers as plastics, sodium perc or brew wash.
I've never had an infection in stainless, but you can clean and sanitise that out for these materials in my opinion if you did get one

Storage. Any time the fermenters are not being used make sure they are dry. If there's any moisture, things will grow in them.

 

[Spiesy]

If you can smell your last beer in plastic, there's a good chance there's some infection in that material too even after all the cleaning and sanitising.

Disagree. A lingering beer aroma in plastic does not indicate an infection. It merely indicates that beer (or aroma compounds from the beer) have been absorbed by the plastic.

 

[Screwtop]

Lesson 1: bleach belongs in the laundry, not the brewery.

Correct, for the brewery a 10% (5% bleach plus 5% Vinegar to drop the PH) solution makes a great disinfectant for brewery equipment. It is not a No Rinse Sanitiser! It is a disinfectant and equipment should be rinsed after use, then stored prior to next use.

Interesting topic.
Clean, sanitised and fit for brewing may be all different things.

Plastics.
First up I like plastics and I use them. You can clean these and sanitise all you like, but as mentioned they carry some aroma from previous brews. I have never found that an issue even when doing delicate beers, they still turn out great. But there is one exception to that I have found. The hop and malts flavours don't really taint the next beer, but if any Chlorine based cleaners / sanitisers have been used these can. It's only a marginal thing and it depends on how the chemicals are used and how sensitive the drinker is to the flavour / aroma. Not saying I would never use a chlorine based cleaner on plastic, but I would do it very rarely and never any time I was leading up to entering a competition. Rather stick to Sodium Perc or a brewery wash. Sunlight is a good sanitiser too, but most, nearly all brewing plastics are not UV stabilised, so they will go brittle very fast.
Infection. If I ever get an infection in plastic, I will dispose of every piece of plastic that has touched that brew. If you can smell your last beer in plastic, there's a good chance there's some infection in that material too even after all the cleaning and sanitising. I learnt this the hard way.

Stainless and Glass. I like these material and I use stainless, but I don't have glass. I find these fermenters, well the stainless ones I use clean up very nicely using the right cleaners and sanitisers. I don't find SS tainted from the flavours and aromas of the previous batches. I also use the same cleaners and sanitisers as plastics, sodium perc or brew wash.
I've never had an infection in stainless, but you can clean and sanitise that out for these materials in my opinion if you did get one

Storage. Any time the fermenters are not being used make sure they are dry. If there's any moisture, things will grow in them.

Yes, Chlorine based disinfectant solution should be used after cleaning using Sodium Perc then rinsed and then stored dry as you mention. Some airborne bugs are bound to settle on fermenter walls during storage so fermenters made from any material should be 'Sanitised' prior to use on brew day.

Disagree. A lingering beer aroma in plastic does not indicate an infection. It merely indicates that beer (or aroma compounds from the beer) have been absorbed by the plastic.

Correct!


Screwy

 

[Brewman_]

Disagree. A lingering beer aroma in plastic does not indicate an infection. It merely indicates that beer (or aroma compounds from the beer) have been absorbed by the plastic.

Hi Spiesy,

My previous post was ambiguous. Let me clarify.

I agree aroma in a plastic is no indication of infection. Far from it, and not a problem.

My point is. If you get an infection in plastic, then it is not recoverable. I refer to aroma, meaning there is some trace of previous brews and if the previous brew was infected there is a good chance, not a guarantee that the infection remains too. Plastics are different to other materials in that they can, I won't say will, retain traces of unwanted infections. My experience is that they do.

Hope that clarifies my point.

Cheers Steve

 

[Matplat]

Well, i've just finished cleaning and sanitising my fermenter after reading this thread and completing my first brew.

I had planned to just use napisan, which is what i did first, rinsed it soaked it rinsed again i could still smell a beery pong but wasnt to fussed as expected it from above posts.

Then i remembered reading someone had said they use hot caustic and it came up fresh every time... i had a pot of brigalow bottle cleaning powder which im pretty sure is caustic soda, so i thought i would give it a crack. I chucked it in there along with the other bits and pieces and left it for two days.... what a difference! No odour whatsoever! Im sold, the only downside is you have to be a bit more careful with it potentially dissolving your skin!

Cheers, Matt

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Skin...and eyes. That **** will turn your eyes to soap. Goggles and gloves for sure.

 

[bonk1972]

What a great debate well I think I got my answer i guess the smell and aroma cant be prevented in plastic and is suggest that it may or may not carry over to the next brew
I guess I will going as I am thanks

 

[Eagleburger]

Looking forward to not have to buy aroma hops.

 

[Cocko]

Well if youre dick goes into youre fermenter then disinfect it for sure

You cant make me.

 

[Moad]

new world Cock Ale?

 

[MaltyHops]

A Sour Lamdic.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Still sounds preferable to a Flanders brown...

 

[wynnum1]

Skin...and eyes. That **** will turn your eyes to soap. Goggles and gloves for sure.

The hospitality industry faces injuries every day. A simple trip on a mat can leave a person with a serious, debilitating injury for the rest of their life. Gavan's story is truly heart-breaking because it could have been prevented.

https://www.worksafe.qld.gov.au/forms-and-resources/campaigns/safety-advocates/changing-focus-the-gavan-mcguane-story?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_content=Gavan&utm_campaign=WorkSafeQLD

 

[S.E]

Then i remembered reading someone had said they use hot caustic and it came up fresh every time... i had a pot of brigalow bottle cleaning powder which im pretty sure is caustic soda, so i thought i would give it a crack. I chucked it in there along with the other bits and pieces and left it for two days.... what a difference! No odour whatsoever! Im sold, the only downside is you have to be a bit more careful with it potentially dissolving your skin!

Cheers, Matt

Hi Matt

I usually buy my caustic from IGA or Coles. It is sold as a drain cleaner/unblocker and heavy duty cleaner. IGA stock Diggers caustic and Coles stock Mechanix caustic. MeHome brew shops often stock it also, I have some from Keg King at the moment.

It can be hazardous if not handled carefully but any competent adult should be ok using it. There is of course always the risk of an accident but it’s no more dangerous than say petrol or gas can be if not used with care.

I have seen post in other threads stating caustic is not recommended or too dangerous for home brewers but I don’t see why.

The Diggers and Mechanix caustic is also advertised as perfect for making soap so are home brewers considered less competent than other hobbyists like soap makers or the housewives that buy it as a heavy duty cleaner?

All the caustic I have bought always states on the container that it must be dissolved in COLD water and this is very important as it will raise the temperature of the water considerably. If it is mixed in hot water it can erupt in your face.

I prefer to use it hot as it will clean a 60L fermenter in a few minutes with about 2L of water as opposed to filling it with over 60L cold water and leaving it overnight, so quicker and keeps the water bill down.

I used to mix a couple tbsp of caustic in about 200ml cold water then slowly top up the jug with boiling water. Now on brew days I use a stock pot so I add the caustic to 4L cold water and bring it to the boil with a jar and spoon submerged in it to clean for yeast collecting.

I use about 2L to clean 3 cubes then fill the cubes with beer from the fermenter for cask conditioned ale then carefully collect the clean yeast with the spoon and jar from top layer at the bottom of the fermenter.

I then clean the fermenter with the remaining caustic run the wort from the kettle through the counterflow chiller into the cleaned and sanitised fermenter, then aerate and add the freshly collected yeast.

As stated above I use cubes for cask conditioned real ale but if you use kegs you can build a simple CIP. Just turn the kegs upside down and pump hot caustic through the spear returning through the gas post.

Cheers Sean