Hot Alcohol/metho Taste In Two Batches

[steve78]

Hey guys,

I have made two identical AG batches of an American Wheat beer using 1 wyeast american wheat yeast stplit between the batches and started to 2L, I fermented both out at 18C and there was still activity after about 8 days. Gravity showed they overattenuated (1010FG) to what was planned (1013FG) and when I tasted both batches, they tasted like someone added 4L of metho to each of them. One batch I put 400g of local honey in and the other one none (was gonna use fruit in secondary). I estimate that they would be at low-mid 5% ABV pre-carbonation.

I was wondering why both batches would taste like this? I have never had an infection before cause I am pretty good with my sanitation (I use Starsan as directed) and my fridge and equipment are all clean. The grain bill was pretty basic, and only Williamette was used.

I did crash chill both of them after about 9 days before all the yeast subsided, but the FG was 1010, and they appear to have come good in taste after a few days at 2C.

I wouldn't be asking if I fermented it at 25C, but 18C should be pretty neutral. Can anyone offer some advice as to what/why that metho/hot alcohol taste could have come about, and why it has disappeared now? Anyone experienced this?

Cheers,
Steve

 

[mxd]

maybe yeast underpitch

 

[the_new_darren]

What was the OG?

tnd

 

[steve78]

OG was 1051 for both, def not underpitched, I split one fresh wyeast pack into two equal halves, and stepped up a starter from 1L to 2L and pitched the whole thing at the height of activity. Starters have yeast nutrient as well as the nutrient in the smackpack.
Cheers,
Steve

 

[ekul]

What was the recipe? And how much yeast nutrient did you use?

I've only tasted one brew with nutrient (afaik) and it made the beer thin and very warm. Or maybe you've been unlucky and copped a wild yeast infection?

 

[Nick JD]

Last time I was in the 'States I had a few American Wheatbeers. The best one was pretty awful.

That doesn't help much - are they kinda "sharp".

 

[steve78]

Yeah I was thinking a wild yeast or something as I use yeast nutrient in all my starters and brews and never had this before these two batches. I tasted a Lambic once, f**king terrible, similar to my two batches here now come to think of it... Recipe was a straightforward 60-40% wheat/pale malt, with a little carpils, 25g Wmette at 60, 20Wmette at 15. One was made with 400g Bush honey and the other I intend to be split, half sitting on some apricot and the other half on some cherry (A trip to Sam Adams Brewery in Boston inspired the Cherry one). I wanted these beers to be mostly enhanced by the fruit and honey, and not so much from the grain bill or hops.

Who knows, it was a very unexpected first taste, but it seems to have mellowed out now at 2C, so I'll bottle the honey one on the weekend and see how she goes...

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Stupid question but would you know the difference between a hot alcohol taste and an ester that yeast puts of that is very fenolic? I was reading the WHEAT book and apparently those strains put out some crazy flavours at different temps. Still action after 8 days? seems suss but i dont know that yeast. From what i read most wheat yeast finish in 3 to 7 days and should be drank soon after ferment because it all about yeast flavour. Maybe you have the right esters but not the right balance of malt....hard to tell without tasting or more info

 

[Nick JD]

Stupid question but would you know the difference between a hot alcohol taste and an ester that yeast puts of that is very fenolic? I was reading the WHEAT book and apparently those strains put out some crazy flavours at different temps. Still action after 8 days? seems suss but i dont know that yeast. From what i read most wheat yeast finish in 3 to 7 days and should be drank soon after ferment because it all about yeast flavour. Maybe you have the right esters but not the right balance of malt....hard to tell without tasting or more info

American wheat yeasts are essentially bland ale yeasts. US05 is a good yeast for American Wheats.

They are in no way German Wheats. Chalk and cheese ... or drain cleaner and ripe brie.

 

[Thefatdoghead]

American wheat yeasts are essentially bland ale yeasts. US05 is a good yeast for American Wheats.

They are in no way German Wheats. Chalk and cheese ... or drain cleaner and ripe brie.

Never used those yeasts mate but if they are what you say then maybe the OP has mashed low or another problem with attenuation but it sounds like a yeast problem

 

[fcmcg]

I'm just wondering if your starter was okay ? Did it smell okay or taste okay before pitching ? If you've spilt batches and they both have the same problem.....
Hate to loose a brew....
Bummer...
F

 

[steve78]

I was thinking American Wheat yeast would be bland, nothing like 3068. The starter was fine, smelt good, nothing out of the ordinary with it. Mash was about 66C from memory.

I will bottle it and see how it comes out, cause the crash chill seems to have mellowed it a fair bit. Not sure what did it, as I never have had that problem before, guess I'll put it down to a strange phenomenon or something, but I use US-05 and 1056 extensively, and may use that if I ever make these brews again, will probably just use an American Ale yeast...

Prob just a yeast problem seeing as it was common in both batches....

Thanks guys for all the advice!
Merry Christmas

 

[jasonharley]

Hey guys,

I have made two identical AG batches of an American Wheat beer using 1 wyeast american wheat yeast stplit between the batches and started to 2L, I fermented both out at 18C and there was still activity after about 8 days. Gravity showed they overattenuated (1010FG) to what was planned (1013FG) and when I tasted both batches, they tasted like someone added 4L of metho to each of them. One batch I put 400g of local honey in and the other one none (was gonna use fruit in secondary). I estimate that they would be at low-mid 5% ABV pre-carbonation.

I was wondering why both batches would taste like this? I have never had an infection before cause I am pretty good with my sanitation (I use Starsan as directed) and my fridge and equipment are all clean. The grain bill was pretty basic, and only Williamette was used.

I did crash chill both of them after about 9 days before all the yeast subsided, but the FG was 1010, and they appear to have come good in taste after a few days at 2C.

I wouldn't be asking if I fermented it at 25C, but 18C should be pretty neutral. Can anyone offer some advice as to what/why that metho/hot alcohol taste could have come about, and why it has disappeared now? Anyone experienced this?

Cheers,
Steve

Did you pastuerise the honey? Honey contains significant bacteria and wild yeasts



5 eyes

 

[Thefatdoghead]

I was thinking American Wheat yeast would be bland

Prob just a yeast problem seeing as it was common in both batches....

Thanks guys for all the advice!
Merry Christmas

Not from what iv'e read. The wheat beer in America sounds very interesting and slightly experimental...but pushing the boundaries to the most drinkable summer beer and bless it be cloudy!! maybe no it's just a problem with the yeast...

 

[katzke]

Did you pastuerise the honey? Honey contains significant bacteria and wild yeasts



5 eyes

How can honey be full of bugs and be antiseptic at the same time?

 

[MaltyHops]

How can honey be full of bugs and be antiseptic at the same time?

Apparently due to honey's low water content - see this.

 

[steve78]

In my experience honey is fine to just chuck in the fermenter at primary, done it a few times before, Honey is the only food that will never spoil btw The taste I was describing was present in both batches, and only one batch was made with honey, so it cannot be the honey addition. Think it must have been a yeast thing...surprisingly. Its mellowed now, so I'll bottle it and see how she goes.

Thanks for the advice again guys, appreciate it!!

Steve

 

[the_new_darren]

Honey does give the "higher alcohol smell" to beers

I suspect your result is almost as expected. American honey wheat beers tend to have that "metho" aroma and can produce enormous headaches/hangovers.

Anyone had a mead hangover?

It is the additional honey that does it.

tnd

 

[Nick JD]

honey wheat beers tend to have that "metho" aroma and can produce enormous headaches/hangovers.

The Mac & Jacks (Redmond, WA) Wheat was the most awful beer I think I've ever tried. Paint stripper would be a kind analogy.