Homebrew Twang

[Nick JD]

I can make a very drinkable kit beer. I just can't ever make it not taste like kit beer, and if I ever can - I won't need to do all this silly mashing shit.

 

[Impy]

I've recently switched to AG so i'm dealing with the teething issues of that (3rd brew seems to be ok) but before that I was trying to eliminate the homebrew twang of my extract beers. I made both kits and unflavoured extract + hops & speciality grains.

From a bit of online research my best guess and best improvement came down to the liquid extracts being the problem. Switching my recipes to be just DME in stead of LME + DME made a HUGE improvement.

The best guess at a reason for this is that even though the liquid wort is packaged cleanly and is still professionally made and quality wort when it gets tinned, it's not chemically inert. Being liquid it's completely free to do whatever chemical ageing that may happen.

DME on the other hand has the preservative benefit of being a dry powder. There is no liquid to assist in chemical reactions.

Give it a go and see what you think. Just make a middle of the road pale ale with DME, speciality grains and a simple hops schedule and see if it gets rid of the twang for you.

 

[wbosher]

Impy, you got any simple example recipes?

 

[Feldon]

Another experiment to try and isolate the cause of homebrew twang might be to try and make an all grain batch with twang.

Split an all grain batch of wort out of the mash tun into halves.

One half gets boiled with hop additions as normal (60 mins or whatever) and no-cilled in a sealed container. The other half gets the same treatment but gets reduced, as far as possible without scorching, down to a thickish kit-like syrup.

Leave both at room temp for a month or so for chemical reactions to take place.

Then ferment both having first reconstituted the thick wort with water to same volume as the other sample.

Taste test side by side.

 

[dammag]

Funnily enough, when I was making a curry the other day, toasting whole spices and grinding them myself I had an aha moment and realised why I will be going AG. The only problem is grinding and cooking your own spices is easier than mashing 5 KG of grain and boiling the resultant wort. Even my big hotplate is broken on the stove!

 

[Nick JD]

Another experiment to try and isolate the cause of homebrew twang might be to try and make an all grain batch with twang.

Split an all grain batch of wort out of the mash tun into halves.

One half gets boiled with hop additions as normal (60 mins or whatever) and no-cilled in a sealed container. The other half gets the same treatment but gets reduced, as far as possible without scorching, down to a thickish kit-like syrup.

Leave both at room temp for a month or so for chemical reactions to take place.

Then ferment both having first reconstituted the thick wort with water to same volume as the other sample.

Taste test side by side.

Hmmmm, this is interesting. Very interesting. I see a challenge. Can we fuk it up! I say, YES WE CAN!

Although, I did once have to much of a friend's fooony cigarette once and fell asleep and almost made goop while boiling wort for hours and hours and it was actually really very good - but - I didn't let it get old...

Hmmmm.

 

[stakka82]

I made kits for over 2 years (at least 50 batches) and all had the twang to various degrees.

I did about 10 dry extract brews inbetween the kits and going AG and none of them had the twang, one of those beers remains in my top 5 brews to date.

My brewing 'skill level' was no different in between making my last kit beer and my first all grain.

I second that 'its the can'.

 

[slash22000]

Now, I'm not a beer expert or anything but I'd like to think I've consumed my fair share of different beers over the years.

I make kit beers exclusively, which may be why, but I don't understand what this "twang" is? I can sincerely say that every beer I've ever made from a kit has been very tasty, except the very first, in which I somehow managed to kill my yeast.

Can anybody describe the "twang"? I have a glass of my "Kit" beer in my hand right this moment. I'm open to suggestion.

Alright, I've had quite a number of glasses this night, but this is the freshest one!

 

[Crusty]

Now, I'm not a beer expert or anything but I'd like to think I've consumed my fair share of different beers over the years.

I make kit beers exclusively, which may be why, but I don't understand what this "twang" is? I can sincerely say that every beer I've ever made from a kit has been very tasty, except the very first, in which I somehow managed to kill my yeast.

Can anybody describe the "twang"? I have a glass of my "Kit" beer in my hand right this moment. I'm open to suggestion.

Alright, I've had quite a number of glasses this night, but this is the freshest one!

Are you taking the piss or are you being serious?
If you are being serious, have a taste of an All Grain beer made by someone in the know & see if you can pick the difference.
Since going All Grain about 5yrs ago, I look forward to getting home & having a couple of beers but when I was doing kits, I preferred to just go & buy a carton of something from the bottle shop. My mates shared the same view & often asked me how I could drink that kit beer, in all honesty, it was pretty ordinary. The same circle of friends are still here but have increased in numbers & often ring up or drop in un-announced for trivial stuff, of course they get a beer.
The taste difference is very obvious. Cidery, plastic like is what my kit beers used to taste like.
At the end of the day, if you are happy drinking what you make, that's all that matters.
Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

Your tastebuds change as well. I've been mothballed since August due to my fast approaching move and I bought a couple of slabs of Henninger for $30 each. When I was brewing, Henninger and especially Oettinger seemed very Megaswilly, not as bad as VB, but bland and boring despite being Reinheitsgebot standard.

Now even after a few weeks, a Henninger tastes excellent - the malt shines through, there's that lovely hit of noble hops as I pop the cap and it tastes just like I remember German beers from the old days, although perhaps a little less hoppy.

It will be interesting to see how my tastebuds react to my first Moby Wheat brew that will be first cab off the rank in a couple of weeks.

 

[kelbygreen]

yeah I got a carton of oettinger sitting in the fridge for if I run out of beer and I must say after drink PA and hoppy beers for months straight I cracked one of them and my face screwed up in disgust lol I used to live on the stuff, as you say after a few it grows on slowly but the first taste was like WOW thats no good

 

[altstart]

I started bewing kits in 1977 and I was happy with the results. I tasted my first AG beer in 2005 at a brew day at Ross's place and the difference was staggering almost an epiphany. I immediately went into AG full bore. My first attemtps were disasters but over the years experience gained and the addition of a herms system and the control of mash PH have produced the results I wanted. There is no comparison between Kit beers and AG brewed beer.
Cheers Altstart

 

[pcmfisher]

It doesn't taste like AG beer. Why?

What are the characteristics that differentiate it from your AG beer?

What are the origins of these characters?

Why is it that if you do a mini boil with some hops, and replace the kit can with plain malt extract does it improve significanty?

I've done all this. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but I know which ingredient I'm not putting in my beer anymore ... the hopped can of goop.

Totally agree!

 

[pcmfisher]

Now, I'm not a beer expert or anything but I'd like to think I've consumed my fair share of different beers over the years.

I make kit beers exclusively, which may be why, but I don't understand what this "twang" is? I can sincerely say that every beer I've ever made from a kit has been very tasty, except the very first, in which I somehow managed to kill my yeast.

Can anybody describe the "twang"? I have a glass of my "Kit" beer in my hand right this moment. I'm open to suggestion.

Alright, I've had quite a number of glasses this night, but this is the freshest one!

You may like your beers but, do offense intended, I would just about guarantee that if you were to taste a good all grain beer or even one made with unbittered malt and fresh hops you would understand what kit twang is in an instant.

I was under the same delusion for years!

 

[Yob]

'twang' can certainly be masked with enough effort

Ive swapped kits and bits at case swaps against AG brews and got some very nice feedback indeed HERE and HERE

and my favorite kit (& bits) beer review HERE

I would have to say though that the brewdays for these were as long as an AG Brew session but only half as much fun.

I rate Kit beers (if handled correctly) up there with AG but I found that they dont really hold up well with age, lighter APA's and such anyway.. It will be ineresting to see if the AG's I produce will hold up better.

Yob

 

[yum beer]

Now, I'm not a beer expert or anything but I'd like to think I've consumed my fair share of different beers over the years.

I make kit beers exclusively, which may be why, but I don't understand what this "twang" is? I can sincerely say that every beer I've ever made from a kit has been very tasty, except the very first, in which I somehow managed to kill my yeast.

Can anybody describe the "twang"? I have a glass of my "Kit" beer in my hand right this moment. I'm open to suggestion.

Alright, I've had quite a number of glasses this night, but this is the freshest one!

I find it hard to believe you don't notice the twang, but to give an example,
I have moved to AG for my last 7 batches from doing kits, I have a mate still doing kits who hadnt tried an AG yet.
He came round one Saturday to watch a brew day and brought along a longie of his latest kit pilsener, his best beer to date that he was wrapped with. He poured a glass each and tried it out, straight away there was that twang, the beer was nice enough but twang.
After his brew I cracked one of my AG pilseners, he nearly fucken died.
Yes, we convince ourselves that our kit beers taste good and that the wierd taste is not that bad and hell we even get used to it, drink em fast and dont take the time to taste them and you dont really notice the twang, but end of the day, until you swirl a good swig of AG brew around your mouth you just dont know how big the difference is.

 

[Impy]

Impy, you got any simple example recipes?

Sorry for the late reply. Didn't log on all weekend.

A simple pale ale might be something like (just off the top of my head)

3kg Pale Unhopped DME
200g Crystal Malt

Boil volume 10L
20g Chinook @ 60
30g Cascade @ 15
30g Cascade Dry Hop into fermenter before pitching yeast.

Yeast: US-05 Dry yeast

Ferment volume 23L

Instructions:
- Line pot with muslin cloth and steep crystal malt in 10L 70C water.
- Remove and strain grain using muslin cloth.
- Bring to boil and start hop schedule.
- When hop schedule is finished cool liquid (I put my boil pot into my bath with some ice water)
- add liquid from pot into fermenter & top up with cold water to 23L
- Dry Hop
- Pitch yeast when liquid is ~25C

Also check the Recipe DB on this site. It has some good extract recipes.

 

[bum]

'twang' can certainly be masked with enough effort...

...but I found that they dont really hold up well with age

I agree completely. When I first started brewing I swore I wouldn't go AG (seemed like too much work for the same or similar output) but pretty soon I realised the twang wasn't something that I was doing and wouldn't go away with experience. So I worked pretty hard at covering it up. I can confidently say I did this a couple of times but as the beer faded/mellowed (as all beers must) the twang always came to the fore. Spending 3 hours and maybe $40+ on a kit beer started making going AG look pretty attractive. Turns out the process is as enjoyable as the final product (from my brewery anyway...)

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I can't drink Oettinger anymore, for the record.

Tricking up a kit beer, without even trying to get rid of twang, starts to render the economic benefits of homebrewing nonexistent. A good batch of AG is about half the cost.

I gave a bronze medal beer to a mate, who raved about it. I criticised the beer he was raving about and said the judges nailed the problems correctly. He's a Fat Yak drinker and was gobsmacked that I was so critical.

That's what good AG does. You don't put up with average beer, as in one's kit days. Instead you critique harshly what are reasonable beers to the above average palate.

Goomba

 

[slash22000]

A good batch of AG is about half the cost.

Unless you're stuck in Darwin and it costs $70+ for grain delivery per batch. :huh: