Homebrew Twang

[DU99]

3 kit beers at 25-30C ferment temp/fermented at 25-30+C

18-20 for ale..look around for black rock malt kits unhopped light and wheat some us 05 mosiac hops bit of speciality grain and you have a beer

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

What happened if, within that 5 degree (assumed) range, there was a significant variance (one did 25, one did 30)? Did you use temp control to determine consistency of temperature (or some other means)? Even if you didn't have temp control, did you measure the fermentation temperatures of each beer on a regular basis and take results?

If you didn't, then you have more than one variable, at best, and the results could be challenged.

Edit: And no mention of yeast. Given yeast is what converts wort into beer, it is singly the most important aspect of brewing (not priming ingredients). If you were using "under the lid" yeast from two different makers, there's another variable.

 

[SnakeRider]

Think you missed what I was saying... I am starting to test differences by using the same batch.

I used a single batch, and bottled with different priming mediums... wrote down results as i tasted over 4 weeks.
I used another single batch, and bottle with different priming mediums... wrote down results, just tasted the first 3 of different priming mediums...

the consistent finding between both batches (of identical recipe) when testing the 3 different priming mediums from the same batch, was the same. brown sugar = less twang... yep.. on the same batch. I also did not add my first batch (different recipe) in the findings.

Edit: OK. I see what I said now... I was comparing the 2nd and 3rd batches... not the 1st and second. My bad.

Edit 2: I should have stated I disregarded my first kit, I am pretending I never made that swill.

 

[AndrewQLD]

It's possible that the molasses flavour in the brown sugar primed bottles actually helped hide some of the twang whereas the flavor neutral carb drops and sugar didn't.
What would be better would be to brew the beer at a reasonable temp of 20° and then prime the same way again and see if the sugar or carb drops gave a twang, I would also force carb a few bottles with a carbonation cap and some co2 to give you a sugarless base to compare them too.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Just read this, going to revive as I have done 3 kit beers at 25-30C ferment temp, and done the following experiment on them all...

I bottled 12 330ml bottles, 4 primed with carbonation drops, 4 with caster sugar, and 4 with brown sugar....

my first beer was horrible... rocket fuel... didn't take notes but holy hell, never doing a mangrove jacks blonde again...

my second 2 were identical coopers sparkling ale with a 'cold pack'/brew enhancer fermented at 25-30+C primed the same way.

I just had the first taste of my second batch (at 10 days),
drank a 330 of each carbonation drop, caster sugar, and brown sugar primed bottles... and here is my conclusion for both batches (took notes on the first batch)..

The carbonation drops have a definite twang in comparison to both other priming methods... its terrible, I can even smell the twang.
The caster sugar is slightly better, not as much fruity punch on the tongue, and less smell
and the brown sugar is actually quite enjoyable, but still there is a twang (at 10 days no surprise)

now... before I jumped to this conclusion, on separate days on the last batch I drank them in different orders to eliminate the 'pissed now, its all good, keep em coming' variable off the table. I still came to the same conclusion.

*shrugs* I believe priming medium does make a difference, as a result of this controlled experiment, even though I am a complete novice, I have proven to myself that this is not a myth as stated above.

my 2C :chug:

SR

Mate your ferment temp wil add more bad flavours than any thing else.Forget the brown sugar, the other two sugars are the same.
If you're just starting then you only need to worry about two things: cleaning your equip. and ferment temp.then its a matter of FG if your bottling .

Ive found that there is so much info out there that its easy to get confused.
Change only one thing at a time.
That should be FERMENT TEMP.

"my first beer was horrible... rocket fuel... didn't take notes but holy hell, never doing a mangrove jacks blonde again..."
Brewed at anything above 16/18c i dont doubt it.
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Lifes to short to invest time in making rubbish,get your temp correct your beer will be better![/SIZE]

 

[SnakeRider]

Mate your ferment temp wil add more bad favors than any thing else.Forget the brown sugar, the other two sugars are the same.
If your just starting then you only need to worry about two things cleaning your equip. and ferment temp.then its a matter of FG if your bottling .

Ive found that there is so much info out there that its easy to get confused.
Change only one thing at a time.
That should be FERMENT TEMP.

"my first beer was horrible... rocket fuel... didn't take notes but holy hell, never doing a mangrove jacks blonde again..."
Brewed at anything above 16/18c i dont doubt it.
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Lifes to short to invest time in making rubbish,get your temp correct your beer will be better![/SIZE]

my temps are already sorted dude... 5 days in to my first controlled temp ferment. that was not the point of the experiment. as for 1 thing at a time... changing ONLY THE PRIMING MEDIUM is a pretty good representation of that.... not sure how much of a small change I could do on a single batch. but i am very open to suggestions

I will do the same experiment for the next 2 batches under same conditions.

I do understand twang is amplified by high ferment temps, this fact alone, and the differences between the drops, caster sugar, and brown sugar should be an even bigger reason for this experiment to be conclusive.

 

[SnakeRider]

It's possible that the molasses flavour in the brown sugar primed bottles actually helped hide some of the twang whereas the flavor neutral carb drops and sugar didn't.
What would be better would be to brew the beer at a reasonable temp of 20° and then prime the same way again and see if the sugar or carb drops gave a twang, I would also force carb a few bottles with a carbonation cap and some co2 to give you a sugarless base to compare them too.

excellent idea with the forced carb caps. never heard of them but will ask at my home brew shop

 

[JDW81]

What brand are your carb drops? I'm not going to get into the debate about whether they leave a twang or not, but I had a bag of drops recently that ruined my beer's head retention. Might have been a crappy batch of drops.

 

[SnakeRider]

What brand are your carb drops? I'm not going to get into the debate about whether they leave a twang or not, but I had a bag of drops recently that ruined my beer's head retention. Might have been a crappy batch of drops.

copper tun

 

[fletcher]

i've always used coopers JD. never had a problem with head retention or any kind of twang

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

I wasn't trying to enter the twang argument. Just stating that ferment temp is a major cause of flavor issues. I always ferment cool at the start (ales 15c) then ramp up to 18c. That I feel is a sweet spot. As well it allows for a deviation of +-1.5/2c. Anyway it's been done before. Look it up mate and good luck.


Before I saw this I didn't understand the "search for it"or use Google? But I've found it helpful hope you do as well.


PSS. Not trying to be a smart ass mate just trying to help.

 

[SnakeRider]

Forgive me guys,

I will not post my findings on a controversial topic ever again.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

All good mate. It's hard to get across ideas like this. I thought it was a ferment temp issue causing the "twang" I didn't mean for into read as "look it up" or "search for it". Just that if you start with a hot ferment it may be hard to pinpoint the flavour issue. All good it's a learning thing,as I've never done a kit brew nor bottled I shouldn't have said anything.

 

[Bribie G]

I find that when fermenting at 36 degrees, a touch of Amarillo hop tea definitely makes a difference between two batches.

 

[manticle]

Forgive me guys,

I will not post my findings on a controversial topic ever again.

Mr sensitive.

Take a breath mate. They're hardly the most rigourously scientific findings and getting temp to a good point will help you make much more accurate assessments about the beer.

 

[okie1]

Well, this topic is disheartening, I have been studying for the last month or so before I make my first kit brew, so I could be spot on and make a fine beer. I have invested in a good system and premium ingredients, now I have to venture in knowing it won't be all that good & have a Twang, no matter what I do, then why bother, this sucks. I may just wait a while longer or just give up..Jeez!!

 

[GalBrew]

Well, this topic is disheartening, I have been studying for the last month or so before I make my first kit brew, so I could be spot on and make a fine beer. I have invested in a good system and premium ingredients, now I have to venture in knowing it won't be all that good & have a Twang, no matter what I do, then why bother, this sucks. I may just wait a while longer or just give up..Jeez!!

What you only thought it would take one month of research??

 

[pk.sax]

Premium ingredients? Like what?
I've tasted kit brews made by other that are quite nice, tarted up with hops, better yeast and some steeped grain basically. It is possible to make a good one, just gets expensive considering the kit is supposed to be can + BE.

Rather buy a fresh wort kit and ferment with supplied yeast or buy good yeast with. Lot less fogging about.

 

[okie1]

Well, I bought the Coopers DIY Kit, came with Coopers Lager tin that included BE 1 & Coopers drops, I bought Briess DME to add also hops top dry hop and Safale US05 yeast. I have checked my recipe and it looks good. I have a shop refrigerator & have ordered a temp controller, I think that should cover it, but will it make a good beer? Why would it have a homebrew Twang?

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

compared to commercial mega swill yes I think you'll be pleasantly suprised, you ticked off the majors i.e. yeast and temp control which is a great start,
I used to make kits quite a while back and with a few added bits like you hops and dme yes you can make some bloody good beers that could fool some of the more brew hardy into thinking it was AG,
once you get your controller on the fridge let her rip and as each brew goes by you'll notice improvements, its well worth the journey

 

[okie1]

I thank you for the encouragement, I feel better now, will start brewing soon, just waiting on a few additional arrivals.

 

[fletcher]

I thank you for the encouragement, I feel better now, will start brewing soon, just waiting on a few additional arrivals.

don't give up okie. brewing is a journey. you'll make plenty of mistakes and bad brews, but plenty more amazing ones. in my experience i started with kits and then went to brew in a bag and it was just a fun ride the whole way. read lots and understand the 'why' if something goes wrong, then make incremental adjustments to get it better. it's great fun!

 

[pk.sax]

Yep, I concur with above posters too. The most easy to mess up things you have already covered.

See how you like the coppers lager, I had just made it with what came in the box and was fairly unimpressed. You are way ahead already. For your next purchases, if you want to stay with kits, ask around here for suggestions of nice kits and recipes to go. Great bases to tinker on. Like the coopers Canadian blonde is an inexpensive one to add stuff to. Yet other kits get a very good rap too.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Well, I bought the Coopers DIY Kit, came with Coopers Lager tin that included BE 1 & Coopers drops, I bought Briess DME to add also hops top dry hop and Safale US05 yeast. I have checked my recipe and it looks good. I have a shop refrigerator & have ordered a temp controller, I think that should cover it, but will it make a good beer? Why would it have a homebrew Twang?

Thats great

compared to commercial mega swill yes I think you'll be pleasantly suprised, you ticked off the majors i.e. yeast and temp control which is a great start,
I used to make kits quite a while back and with a few added bits like you hops and dme yes you can make some bloody good beers that could fool some of the more brew hardy into thinking it was AG,
once you get your controller on the fridge let her rip and as each brew goes by you'll notice improvements, its well worth the journey

+ 1 Okie1 your on target. It sounds like you have done your home work ,that recipe will make a nice beer.
Are you bottling? if so just use the good sugar something made for bottle carbing (like your drops )stay away from brown sugar even table sugar.just use the stuff sold for that job.



http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/71800-stupid-things-you-have-done-on-brewday/

have a look at that Okie1 some funny stuff there .

 

[Gelding]

Why would it have a homebrew Twang?

For reasons beyond your control.... maybe. That reason is the goop in the can (excuse the term used by a once infamous poster here). You place a lot of trust in that can but I also dare say also in how that can has been handled since it left the factory. Old or poorly stored cans will produce a darker brew with a far higher propensity toward that dreaded twang.

I see you have already bought dme and hops. If you are doing this then you don't need a kit. You will probably notice a resounding increase in the quality of your beers if you sub that can for dme and boil those hops in it with some water. Of course you need to do a few calculations, but plenty on that in this forum.

 

[bmarshall]

Can you describe the TWANG taste? The research i did described a few different flavors. I get a metalic bitter taste to my k&k with quality ingredients and temp control. I get no such twang with fresh wort kits fermented and bottled in the same maner.
PS harden up, you cop plenty of stick on this forum but its cos were all pasionate about brewing

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Concur with most the posts here.

Anyone thinking "I'll do some research and I'll nail it first time and that will be the best I can ever do" is being a bit naïve. It's a bit like a really good sports star - they are always working on their game to improve it.

Brewing is a journey, not a destination. Enjoy learning, improving and experimenting. If you get twang, there's research, there's opinions/conjecture. Make up your mind about all the opinions and find what works for you.

 

[technobabble66]

Lord Raja Goomba I:
a bit like a really good sports star.

The quote was too good to pass up ;-)

 

[wereprawn]

Just read this, going to revive as I have done 3 kit beers at 25-30C ferment temp, and done the following experiment on them all...

I bottled 12 330ml bottles, 4 primed with carbonation drops, 4 with caster sugar, and 4 with brown sugar....

my first beer was horrible... rocket fuel... didn't take notes but holy hell, never doing a mangrove jacks blonde again...

my second 2 were identical coopers sparkling ale with a 'cold pack'/brew enhancer fermented at 25-30+C primed the same way.

I just had the first taste of my second batch (at 10 days),
drank a 330 of each carbonation drop, caster sugar, and brown sugar primed bottles... and here is my conclusion for both batches (took notes on the first batch)..

The carbonation drops have a definite twang in comparison to both other priming methods... its terrible, I can even smell the twang.
The caster sugar is slightly better, not as much fruity punch on the tongue, and less smell
and the brown sugar is actually quite enjoyable, but still there is a twang (at 10 days no surprise)

now... before I jumped to this conclusion, on separate days on the last batch I drank them in different orders to eliminate the 'pissed now, its all good, keep em coming' variable off the table. I still came to the same conclusion.

*shrugs* I believe priming medium does make a difference, as a result of this controlled experiment, even though I am a complete novice, I have proven to myself that this is not a myth as stated above.

my 2C :chug:

SR

Good experiment mate. That's what it's all about. Try different things and see what you enjoy best! Personally I find carbing with dextrose gives a bit smoother taste . As stated , fermentation temp is very important and your temps were far too high, in general, for good beer.

Fermenting at high temp produces unwanted types of alcohol and other "off" flavours.

Another thing to try is putting a couple of bottles in the fridge for a few days. Even Ales benefit from lagering.

I use the Coopers cervesa kit for some of my brews as a base, then a few gm of hops, some specialty grains, and a good yeast. Bobs yer uncle.

Don't be down about ya beer. It will get better.

Some of the lads get a tad excited about beer and can be a bit offensive but the majority know their stuff and have good advice to offer ( when their not being miserable, arseholes).

Keep up the good work with your experiments and try not to take **** to personal. It really is a good forum.


Cheers.