Hilary or Donald

[manticle]

So the answer to women being potentially forced to do something is to force women to do something?

The motive behind is clear, indicated by both the others who support it and Lambie's previous discussions about extreme Islam, halal and Islamic dress. One more time in case you missed the other 7 million - the ban is only enforced if/when a certain terror level is reached so what happens to the noble motivations when the level drops lower?

A discussion around cultural practices that do impinge on legal freedoms and solutions to them would be most welcome. This bill is not it.

You have avoided (multiple times) two points previously made.

1. Some Muslim women, educated and free thinking, willingly wear islamic headress of various types.

2. Simply banning the burqua in public will give those women who are forced by husbands/fathers/uncles/brothers (and I am absolutely not suggesting that isn't the case many, many times) less choice because if successful, they then won't be allowed to leave the house.

As for KKK - there's a number of reasons why they're not a terrorist organisation officially, including the fact there are multiple klans through history with some common aims but no common organisation. Many of these, including the original/primary have conducted themselves in a way designed to instil terror in civilians through violent acts (with identity disguised).

I don't believe the US ever designate domestic groups as Terrorist either - only foreign. Happy to be wrong on that last.

And for the record, I doubt there is anyone here who agrees with fundamentalist perspectives on the role or treatment if women - not you, not I, not DBs and not GFWAU.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Hillary. I would have voted for Hillary - the lesser bad of two bad choices.

People are concerned about the burqa because most of us would not like our mothers, sisters, wives, daughters to have their lives restricted in this way. For me it's not about any sort of terrorism threat (except in the case of an emergency where Everybody needs to be identifiable).

Wear it if they choose under religious freedom, but know that they choose that restriction voluntarily forgoing other freedoms available to them.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

And for the record, I doubt there is anyone here who agrees with fundamentalist perspectives on the role or treatment if women - not you, not I, not DBs and not GFWAU.

Like.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

As for KKK - there's a number of reasons why they're not a terrorist organisation officially, including the fact there are multiple klans through history with some common aims but no common organisation. Many of these, including the original/primary conducted themselves in a way designed to instil terror in civilians through violent acts (with identity disguised).

Which would make them Terrorists...

 

[manticle]

My point exactly.

Keyword being 'officially'

 

[manticle]

Ironically KKK were originally associated with democrats.

 

[Dave70]

Hillary. I would have voted for Hillary - the lesser bad of two bad choices.

People are concerned about the burqa because most of us would not like our mothers, sisters, wives, daughters to have their lives restricted in this way. For me it's not about any sort of terrorism threat (except in the case of an emergency where Everybody needs to be identifiable).

Wear it if they choose under religious freedom, but know that they choose that restriction voluntarily forgoing other freedoms available to them.

More problematic in the broader sense is the burka / niqab and its association with a more fundamentalists interpretation of islam and the backward aspects of the culture surrounding it. I think this is what really makes people uncomfortable. Many seem to be operating under the false assumption that discouraging or banning it is like banning islam. If only it were that easy.
To my mind, the key is consent, at least in a country where the law protects a womens rights. On the other hand, if a woman chooses to be muslim in the more traditional sense, she has also chosen to be subordinate to her husband, at least on some level, as per the multiple times this is instructed in the quran. How it is. I married a catholic and couldn't even slip 'honor and obey' into my wedding vows..

Hillary also. But its still about as appealing chopping off your non dominant hand if you had to choose.
However, the greater fear, particularly of the more leftist liberals is that Trump actually turns out to be good for the country. Maby we've all read it wrong and being a narcissistic lying buffoon con man if the skill set required to govern the US after all.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Keyword being 'officially'

I forgot, the KKK are white Christians...funny how they get to decide

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Yes (to Dave70). It's no use crying over spilt milk re: the results of the US election.

The democratic election has been run and Trump won. The world needs to accept that and get on with the task of trying working with him, or failing that waiting it out until he's turfed out or impeached (which is highly likely).

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

Heart said Hillary but when you consider that the Republicans hold majorities in both houses her legislative agenda would have been dogged in much the same way as Obama's was. So now the Republicans have made their own bed and have to sleep in it. Trump might crash through but will more likely just crash and take his bat and ball away. No lefties or moderates can be blamed for what happens next.

 

[manticle]

The illuminati still can though.

 

[pcmfisher]

And/Or if you tell us that someone is forcing you to wear that restrictive gown .. we will be having a very serious chat with them.

Excuse me sir. Are you forcing your wife to wear that burqa?

Yes I am, why?

You do know you are restricting her rights? We in Australia don't take to kindly to that.

Oh, whatever was I thinking? From now on dear, you can go out wearing whatever you like...............I dare you.

What now?

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Like any domestic abuse situation, it is difficult but not impossible - but there are supports and avenues available. Restraining orders etc.

Here is the link to the reachout website. http://au.reachout.com/Tough-Times/Bullying-Abuse-and-Violence/Abusive-relationships?gclid=CKzKnprAjtICFUoIvAodlj4PGg

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have no doubt that would probably happen, but at least she will know she has somewhere to turn to same as Aussie women

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Heart said Hillary but when you consider that the Republicans hold majorities in both houses her legislative agenda would have been dogged in much the same way as Obama's was. So now the Republicans have made their own bed and have to sleep in it. Trump might crash through but will more likely just crash and take his bat and ball away. No lefties or moderates can be blamed for what happens next.

I cant wait for that

 

[good4whatAlesU]

I have no doubt that would probably happen, but at least she will know she has somewhere to turn to same as Aussie women

Point of clarification. "they" are aussie women.

And yes they have the same options I agree with you there.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have a friend who is a Bangladeshi Muslim along with his wife, she wears no head scarf, both well educated, and I eventually asked the question about his Muslim belief,he is very well educated and I asked if he really did believe the Quran he admitted he didn't, but out of respect for his parents beliefs he carried on as if he still followed the faith which is fair enough.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I know plenty who think the same of the bible

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

I knew an Anglican Archbishop who did not literally believe that much of the Bible was true or accurate but he did believe that its teachings helped a lot of troubled people lead a relatively peaceful life. He'd been a Commando in WW2 so I guess he knew a thing or two about the worst of the human condition.

 

[wynnum1]

I have a friend who is a Bangladeshi Muslim along with his wife, she wears no head scarf, both well educated, and I eventually asked the question about his Muslim belief,he is very well educated and I asked if he really did believe the Quran he admitted he didn't, but out of respect for his parents beliefs he carried on as if he still followed the faith which is fair enough.

In Bangladesh that sort of thinking can get you hacked to death.