Hilary or Donald

[LAGERFRENZY]

I'd be tickled pinko if our present lot of fuckers stopped trying to embezzle us with their expense claims, made big multinationals pay ANY tax at all and stopped ******* over the most vulnerable people in our society in the spurious name of budget repair.

 

[Brewnicorn]

I'd be tickled pinko if our present lot of fuckers stopped trying to embezzle us with their expense claims, made big multinationals pay ANY tax at all and stopped ******* over the most vulnerable people in our society in the spurious name of budget repair.

I absolutely agree and I ******* hate the idea that folks who never knew about superannuation til the end a of their working lives have to face the prospect of shrinking pensions and sun standard living arrangements and being called 'leaners' by these entitled bastards. Infuriates me.

 

[DUANNE]

That's just so far off the mark.

I'm from Denmark and have both Swedish and German friends. Are there some little issues with it all? Sure. The main issues however, lie with the reporting of it, stirring up a storm over things which most people simply do not feel any impact from ever.

The way this whole 'Europe has gone to shit' argument is playing out, you'd think there was a war on and that people are being killed and stabbed all over the place. The reality is, that if you're walking around in any European city, you'll experience the same problems as you will when doing the same here. Walking through a smaller town there, you'll experience the same as in a smaller town here.

'Things' have not gone to shit. For basically everyone in Europe, there's no noticeable difference.

so what your saying is if the media didnt report the incidents that happen then it really would be a safe left wing utopia? id call men armed with illegal automatic firearms shooting poeple and driving trucks into packed market places more than just "little issues". thats without the massive financial problems and homelessness being taken into account. lets not forget that trump and brexit where decisions made by the silent majority rather than the loud obnoxious left who cant stand to hear anything not of their own opinion.

 

[2cranky]

I guess therein lies the issue, both sides of politics fail to recognise the centre. It's also pretty easy to just use the left right as an accepted continuum when people's engagement politically likely borrows from many parties perspectives these days. I think that's where major parties fall by the way side these days when they fail to recognise change in the wind by being dogmatic. Trump's great fraud was to use the republican establishment as a bedrock for his 'change'. Populism got him to where he is. Populism and a flawed voting model. Just my two cents.

Fear got him where he is. Same fear Pauline and One Nation use. So many disaffected groups it was inevitable that he could tap into their fears. And now with "Fake News" he can discredited any negative reporting which would bring more typical governments into line. But I do have some faith in peoples conscience not allowing them to follow blindly just to hold onto power.....wait...that never happens does it? :huh:

 

[Brewnicorn]

There's more to the political spectrum to consider than right and left. I think fans of both sides have that to consider. There's good and bad (and evil) in all kinds of political behaviours. The same as in people's behaviours (surprise). The balance comes from the mix of opinions and that's not telling most people anything. But disparaging one side as consistently right/wrong just makes for a shit argument more than anything. I don't think the left advocates for terrorist attacks when they see the good in opening borders in a humanitarian crisis. More than I hope the right might see a military solution as being a precursor to the collapse of a political system and a refugee crisis. Swings and roundabouts and balance comes from the vote. I think there's a lot more to getting shit done than pushing the same old barrow.

 

[yankinoz]

Over the years Trump has reversed course on many issues. Despite that waffling, at any one time he is absolute certain he is right, even if he has to imagine facts to back him up, never admits a mistake and dismisses all criticism with extreme prejudice. All very worrisome qualities in a leader. As for Pauline Hanson, she's equally addicted to alternative facts, but is not the narcissistic bully that Trump is.

One Nation appeals to the same core as Trump, strongest among White and rural voters. Hers are not nearly so numerous as Trump's (who are, let's not forget, a minority) or the Europopulists', but an economic crisis here could change that.

 

[bradsbrew]

Fear got him where he is. Same fear Pauline and One Nation use. So many disaffected groups it was inevitable that he could tap into their fears. And now with "Fake News" he can discredited any negative reporting which would bring more typical governments into line. But I do have some faith in peoples conscience not allowing them to follow blindly just to hold onto power.....wait...that never happens does it? :huh:

It is not just the fear mongering, it is people being fed up with political leaders not following up on promises and selling out to foreign multinational companies for no real benefit for the economy or job growth.

 

[Rocker1986]

I think the far left and the far right are both a bunch of loonies. The far left are too quick to pander to minorities at the expense of the majority. They're too spineless to stand up to them because they don't want to "offend" anybody. I don't think minorities should be treated worse, but I don't think they should be treated better either. It should be the same rights and responsibilities for everybody, regardless. I have no problem with people from other countries, backgrounds etc. coming here to live. But, if you want the right to work then you have the responsibility not to stop every ******* hour to pray to an imaginary friend. I also think that given we're an English speaking country, if they plan to live here permanently they should be required to have at least a basic understanding of the language in order to communicate. There's nothing worse than trying to help someone at work, only to find I can't because they can't speak English so I've got no idea what they're talking about.

On the other hand, the far right spews its racist and intolerant hatred under the piss weak guise of "ending political correctness". What they're doing has nothing to do with political correctness. They just hate people from other races or religions or sexual persuasion for no real reason other than it's been brainwashed into them by their parents or whoever else. They think every Muslim on earth is a terrorist. They oppose gay marriage due to their religious beliefs (there really is no other reason for it, and even that one is a weak one), they oppose women's freedom of choice over their bodies, they dispute proven science because it disagrees with their opinion. These people aren't fit to lead anything, but neither are the far left.

There needs to be a balance between the two that's not too far either way. Tolerant but fair. Promote scientific research and discovery, because that's what will drive us forward. Push for a better education and healthcare system. Believe whatever fairy stories you want, but don't use it to influence legislation. Base legislation on logic and evidence, not emotion and fear. Don't be shut off to immigration, but if they do the wrong thing then turf those ones out rather than targetting the whole lot. I don't really know why balance like that is so difficult to grasp for so many on both sides.

 

[Dave70]

Fear got him where he is. Same fear Pauline and One Nation use. So many disaffected groups it was inevitable that he could tap into their fears. And now with "Fake News" he can discredited any negative reporting which would bring more typical governments into line. But I do have some faith in peoples conscience not allowing them to follow blindly just to hold onto power.....wait...that never happens does it? :huh:

And the antithesis of this seems to be elements of the far left trying to convince us that xenophobia, racism and sexism are endemic in our population institutionalized and interwoven into our laws and constitution.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

We didn't want to upset anyone this Christmas past, so we celebrated Festivus instead.

 

[lost at sea]

so what your saying is if the media didnt report the incidents that happen then it really would be a safe left wing utopia? id call men armed with illegal automatic firearms shooting poeple and driving trucks into packed market places more than just "little issues". thats without the massive financial problems and homelessness being taken into account. lets not forget that trump and brexit where decisions made by the silent majority rather than the loud obnoxious left who cant stand to hear anything not of their own opinion.

Sounds like you are describing america

 

[Dave70]

We didn't want to upset anyone this Christmas past, so we celebrated Festivus instead.

Yep. You cant go wrong with ''happy holidays'' either.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

And the antithesis of this seems to be elements of the far left trying to convince us that xenophobia, racism and sexism are endemic in our population institutionalized and interwoven into our laws and constitution.

is that so far-fetched?

 

[pcmfisher]

Where do you think the centre actually is?

Directly in the middle between Tony Abbot and Julia Gillard. Its the reason they were both shocking prime ministers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Going to be a fun 4 yrs

 

[Dave70]

is that so far-fetched?

Not if all we focus on are individual or fringe acts of racism or sexism. There are no sexist or racist laws, its as simple as that.
What we're really talking about is culture, not institutionalized discrimination.

 

[manticle]

Just for reference - far left is extreme socialism/stalinism/marxism/anarcho-syndicalism which doesn't really apply to the contexts people continually use.
Far right = Fascism/national socialism/BNP/AAFI/KKK. Larouche is centrist because he's both extremes in one.

If you think Bob Brown is far left (or Turnbull extreme right), you need to do some reading so you can rely less on hyperbole and useless, irrelevant terms of reference.

 

[2cranky]

It is not just the fear mongering, it is people being fed up with political leaders not following up on promises and selling out to foreign multinational companies for no real benefit for the economy or job growth.

No its not fear mongering at all. The fear already exists. no jobs, rusted factories- lets close our boarders. horrific scenes of terrorism on the telly - lets ban burkas. These are real fears with over simplistic solutions, so voters can identify. Doesn't even matter that individual groups often contradict each other. Make a statement to align yourself with a group and they are on board.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

is that so far-fetched?

Not if all we focus on are individual or fringe acts of racism or sexism. There are no sexist or racist laws, its as simple as that.
What we're really talking about is culture, not institutionalized discrimination.

well yes I agree that it is generally cultural rather than the letter of the law, but the net effect is the same.

 

[bradsbrew]

No its not fear mongering at all. The fear already exists. no jobs, rusted factories- lets close our boarders. horrific scenes of terrorism on the telly - lets ban burkas. These are real fears with over simplistic solutions, so voters can identify. Doesn't even matter that individual groups often contradict each other. Make a statement to align yourself with a group and they are on board.

Fear mongering is arousing/awaking existing fears.