hermit - up to what volume?

[Yob]

Anyone know what volume Mt they'll work up to with reasonable ramp times?

 

[MastersBrewery]

Yob,
I remember in one of the hermit threads one brewer set up the hermit with 2 elements (more than 4800w from memory) I'd say that would easily cover your 100l system with ramp around 1c/minute ramp which is typical ramp of ramp times. Have you got a couple of 10 amp circuits available?

MB

 

[nala]

Anyone know what volume Mt they'll work up to with reasonable ramp times?

The volume of strike water and the size of the heating element will determine the ramp times.
The Hermit just controls temperature and time.
I mash with a volume of 20 litres, the Hex has 1.7 litres and I get ramp times of approx 1 degree per minute.
The pump theoretically pumps at 19 litres per minute, I do not have to pump returning wort higher than 40 cms.
Hope this helps.

 

[Cocko]

I am running one with a 76L mash tun, usually around 15kg of grain - get good ramps times, 1deg. 1-2 minutes. - 2400w element.

Hope it helps!

Cheers

 

[Camo6]

Similar to Cocko. 50L MT close to full at about 3l per kg. Standard 2400W kettle element with pump running about 3/4 flow and get roughly 1 degree per 1.5 minutes.
Want to upgrade the element and MT down the track so also keen to see what others are getting.

 

[Yob]

Want to upgrade the element and MT down the track

of course you do dear

I thought my 75lt mash tun would do me.. Im re thinking my setup as well

 

[Camo6]

Ha! I remember thinking how big 50l keggles were when setting up my system. As if I'll need more than a 50l mash tun!
What size you looking at? You buying Idzy's kettle or something?

 

[Mardoo]

I started building a 50 litre and sort of switched to 80 litre in the coveting and gathering phase...so, um, this HERMS sizing thing is of interest and I am still on topic.

 

[5150]

I was originally thinking of the double element, but never had the access to power in my brew space. I just moved the brewery into my own garage and have a sparkie coming to look at what power I can draw. If I can get 20amp I will be very tempted to build a double element herms unit, probably just using two 1850w kettle elements so that I can still run other things. I have all the bits here ready to go, but todays project is putting a laundry sink with a pump in the garage.

 

[TheWiggman]

Think of the element heating the mash, not in the coil arrangement. Twice the volume will require twice the energy to heat at the same rate. So if you want to maintain your current mash times, increase your power accordingly.
E.g 18l with 2400W element and 6kg grain goes about 1°C/min. If you went to 36l and 12kg of grain, you'd need 4800W in the HERMS all things being equal to maintain that ramp rate overall.
There will be a limit at which the coil can't transfer the heat effectively, and the liquid in the HERMS will hear faster than the liquor going through it. At this point you either need more flow (for better transfer due to increased turbulence) or a longer coil.
I reckon 5000W with a March pump would be as far as I'd go with a single HERM-IT coil.

 

[Mardoo]

Ah, longer coil. Hadn't occurred to me. Cheers.

 

[QldKev]

On my 3v, when my rims element died, i tried the hermit with a single kettle element to do the full job. Best i could get is 1/3 degree per min. Thats a 100l mash tun pushing a 112l batch (final vol) and the march 809 on full flow.

Biggest element in use i know of is 3,000w.

My mate in brissy is currently building a housing for 2 kettle elements, I hope the coil can transfer all the heat.

 

[TheWiggman]

That makes a lot of sense Kev. I think the coil will be up to it but in any case I'd be interested to hear back.
For reference I knocked up a HERMS for a mate with Nev's 3600W element and single Chugger. Handled it no worries at all, was doing about 3°C in 2 mins for 25l water. There was a 15°C difference between the mash liquor temp and HERMS outlet temp. Overall this pulled the mash temp up very quickly.
If I redid my own system I reckon I would go 3600W (23l in the fermenter)

 

[Tahoose]

I'm not sure if this is relevant. But for a 100ltr batch this is what I'm running:

HERMs 1x 2400w element - 8m 1/2" copper coil.
120ltr mash tun
22kg grain bill.
77ltr strike water

For this is takes me 45mins to ramp 10c.

 

[Yob]

Currently Ive got a little 5lt Birko, 3m copper coil and Im getting 1'c every ~2min with a full 75lt esky mash tun, Im not unhappy with it, it gives a nice gentle ramp which has allowed me to relax somewhat on my stepping procedure.

It should be noted, I 'can' fit an OTS element in the top which fits snug in the copper coil and I get some astonishing ramping if I 'need' to, but I find a nice gentle rise from 63 to 78 is both relaxing (as I can set and walk away) and easier than doing precise ramp / soak steps where I need to stand an watch the temps or at least set a timer to come back for the next step... Sure, a PID would solve some of this but why spend more money on fixing something that already works?

I dont think the Birko element is 2400w or at least doesnt transfer the heat as effectively as an OTS sitting in the coil..

but that HERMIT sure is blingin... h34r:

 

[Tahoose]

Yeah, I have OTS element that I could use also. However 45mins to mash out is fine with me, and in happy to leave it running and come back later on when I want to start the boil.

I like the 3.5ltr/kg ratio for HERMs anyway plus that gives me some options if I want higher gravity ect.

 

[Kingy]

Anymore feedback on this subject, my 2400watt element in 6 litres of water is great for my 46litre batches but for the 69litres it's a bit slow. Not a big deal if I'm not step mashing and just want to maintain mash temps.
As I'm brewing for my old man now I want a bigger kettle and upgrade the herms. So I'd like to do quad batches of my fav beers 92litres into fermenter and am thinking the 3000watt element in the 1.8litres of water of the hermit is gunna **** over my current hex. And the bling of course.
It would be awesome for my doubles and decent for the triples but still handle when required to pump out quads.
Any thoughts? Good idea.

 

[WarmerBeer]

You're all talking "scale up". Nobody here has mentioned "scale out" (Yes, in fact, I do work in I.T.)

Have you considered running two individual HERMIT's, one after the other, in series, with a 2400W element in each?

Yes, it's going to cost you twice as much in (off the shelf) equipment, but getting a bespoke coil bent, or higher wattage elements, might put it near on-par.

Then, if for some reason, you want to brew a smaller batch (ha! ha!), you can just split them up.

 

[Moad]

Why not try a bigger element on your current hex first?

I'm building a 5m coil through 7LL hex heated by 4800w for 100L mash. Still untested but if it fails I'll be looking at building a herm it coil into a smaller cylinder with the elements.

 

[Kingy]

My current hex is made out of a fire extinguisher and is getting a bit rusty and it annoys my brew day lol. And I have a staino addiction.