Help Please, Fermentation Is Not Happening

[Mike&Donna]

So I built a hand press and pressed my own apples. Got 18 litres of juice to which i added 2 tablespoons of SO2 sterilising powder to kill wild yeasts.

I topped up my brewing vessel with 6 litres of purchased natural juice. Then added a sachet of Wyeast Cider Yeast.

Left the lid off for 12 hours, nothing.

Put the lid on and the next day added another sachet of the yeast.

SG was 1055 at the start. Its now 2 weeks later and no fermentation has happened.
SG still the same.

Can anyone help with suggestions of whats gone wrong or how I can rectify this cider.

At the suggestion of my local beer brewing shop I added 500g of sugar. It didn't help.

The juice is at room temperature and we've been having a cold spell. probably less than 20 degrees the whole 2 weeks. Do I need to warm up the juice? Add more yeast? Throw it away and start again?

Any help welcome

 

[rotten]

I'm confused!
Why would you pitch a yeast, after waiting 12 hrs for a wild yeast to take hold?

Anyways, what temp is your brew at? What temp is the yeast supposed to brew at?
How long ago was this?
Cheers

P.S. the more info you give, the better the advice you will receive

 

[Punkal]

I have never used SO2 so i dont know much about it, but it would appear that it is still at about 2/3eds the strength that you put in. Would this still be strong enough to kill the yeast you are pitching? Dose it dissipate over time? Your must/wort (or whatever it is) could be a very unfriendly place for yeast at the moment.

I have never used SO2 so i may by completely wrong...

 

[Tim F]

3 tablespoons is a TON of metabisulfite in 19l. I needed 18g which is 3 teaspoons in 300l of wine this year. You probably would have been right with 1/4 tsp. if it's got that much sulfur i'm not sure how you're going to go getting yeast started at all. If anything you might try a yeast that can tolerate high so2 like sn9?

 

[katzke]

So I built a hand press and pressed my own apples. Got 18 litres of juice to which i added 2 tablespoons of SO2 sterilising powder to kill wild yeasts.

I topped up my brewing vessel with 6 litres of purchased natural juice. Then added a sachet of Wyeast Cider Yeast.

Not a cider guy.

Are you sure the 'natural juice' did not have any preservatives in it?

For SO2 info try this link. http://www.cider.org.uk/sulphite.html

 

[unrealeous]

3 tablespoons is a TON of metabisulfite in 19l.

+1 - A single tablespoon is metric shitload of metabisulfite in 19 litres. Aint nothing going to grow in there now.

 

[Greg.L]

You would have to dump that cider, no way can you save it with that much so2. You must be over 1000ppm.
The best way to add sulphite is camden tablets, you get a measured dose and instructions on how much to use - usually 1 tablet/5 L.

 

[manticle]

Or..............

Don't add SO2 at all.

You can make cider without it. It smells less when fermenting and when fermented, takes less time to age, tastes better and gives less of a headache when consumed in large amounts.

@Katzke: he pressed is own apples which should answer the preservative question.

 

[Airgead]

Or..............

Don't add SO2 at all.

You can make cider without it. It smells less when fermenting and when fermented, takes less time to age, tastes better and gives less of a headache when consumed in large amounts.

Amen to that. I make a cider every year from apples that I juice myself. Never added sulphur. Never had a problem.

Cheers
Dave

 

[kenour]

Amen to that. I make a cider every year from apples that I juice myself. Never added sulphur. Never had a problem.

Cheers
Dave

Do you make your own starter or use bought yeast?

Would you pitch the yeast straight away so the undesired yeasts don't get a foothold?

I just made my first batch and used campden tabs and let it sit for 24 hours before pitching champagne yeast, just wondering what the process would be if you avoided adding anything to kill the wild yeasts?

I really want to make a batch using only what's on my property. Next time I plan on making a yeast starter from my own apples, and using honey from my hives for that little extra kick.

 

[Airgead]

Do you make your own starter or use bought yeast?

Would you pitch the yeast straight away so the undesired yeasts don't get a foothold?

I just made my first batch and used campden tabs and let it sit for 24 hours before pitching champagne yeast, just wondering what the process would be if you avoided adding anything to kill the wild yeasts?

I really want to make a batch using only what's on my property. Next time I plan on making a yeast starter from my own apples, and using honey from my hives for that little extra kick.

I leave the juice overnight in the fermentation fridge at about 10c to let the pulp settle, rack off the juice into another fermenter and pitch a 1l active starter of WY4766 which I grow from a slant. I ferment quite cold at around 16c. This year will be a mix of 20% granny smith and the remainder a mix of braeburn and Jonathan. The apples get a water wash before I juice. They are juiced up cores and all.

Cheers
Dave

 

[manticle]

I leave the juice overnight in the fermentation fridge at about 10c to let the pulp settle, rack off the juice into another fermenter and pitch a 1l active starter of WY4766 which I grow from a slant. I ferment quite cold at around 16c.

Almost blow for blow how I do it. Active starter is key. Wild yeasts are slow to ferment cider as far as I understand.

 

[kenour]

I see! That's what I thought, whack an active starter in and don't give the poor little wild yeasties a chance to get their grove on.

I'll try to get some WY4766 next time, I don't think my local place has it, they seem to only stock vintners harvest yeasts.

One question though... what's a slant? Still getting used to the lingo (I've have a look at the wikipedia entry, but... that seems like heaps of stuffing around).

 

[manticle]

A way of keeping a small amount of pure yeast safe and healthy until you are ready to use it. Needs to be stepped up (cells grown) for use.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Yeast_Slants

 

[Greg.L]

It's definitely better to pitch a cultured yeast if you are just starting out, specially if you don't want to use so2.

I use ec1118 rehydrated in water at 35C. When fermentation is nearly finished I rack to a container under airlock with as little headspace as possible, and add an MLF culture. This keeps the cider bubbling slowly for a fortnight and smoothes the sharpness considerably. After a month in secondary I bottle with priming sugar to carbonate.

If you have good juice and get it bottled with co2 fairly quick, there is no need for so2 and you get a very tasty cider. because you have used all the sugar AND malic acid up, there is very little for bugs to feed on, and the cider is very stable.

If you want to keep the cider in secondary for an extended ageing you should probably add some so2 for safety's sake, its worth it for a bit of peace of mind.

I've been making cider for a few years now from my own trees and when I follow this simple procedure; pitch yeast, MLF culture, bottle carbonate; there is never any problem.

Greg

 

[Airgead]

It's definitely better to pitch a cultured yeast if you are just starting out, specially if you don't want to use so2.

I use ec1118 rehydrated in water at 35C. When fermentation is nearly finished I rack to a container under airlock with as little headspace as possible, and add an MLF culture. This keeps the cider bubbling slowly for a fortnight and smoothes the sharpness considerably. After a month in secondary I bottle with priming sugar to carbonate.

If you have good juice and get it bottled with co2 fairly quick, there is no need for so2 and you get a very tasty cider. because you have used all the sugar AND malic acid up, there is very little for bugs to feed on, and the cider is very stable.

If you want to keep the cider in secondary for an extended ageing you should probably add some so2 for safety's sake, its worth it for a bit of peace of mind.

I've been making cider for a few years now from my own trees and when I follow this simple procedure; pitch yeast, MLF culture, bottle carbonate; there is never any problem.

Greg

I cheat and whack it in a keg. Force carb. I can also back sweeten if I need to (its for the missus) and being cold the whole time it won't re-ferment.

Must try the MLF some time. Trouble is, I'm a cheap ******* (hence the slants) and I've heard that you need to buy MLF fresh each time because its hard to do on slants without a proper lab.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Greg.L]

I cheat and whack it in a keg. Force carb. I can also back sweeten if I need to (its for the missus) and being cold the whole time it won't re-ferment.

Must try the MLF some time. Trouble is, I'm a cheap ******* (hence the slants) and I've heard that you need to buy MLF fresh each time because its hard to do on slants without a proper lab.

Cheers
Dave

Yes, kegging is a good way to do it.

I must admit I don't know what slants are. I buy one packet of MLF per season, about $38, and keep it in the freezer. For cider you don't have to follow the pitching rates for wine, you can use less and make it go further. One packet is supposed to do 250L but this year I did 750L no problem. The point is, after MLF you know all the microbiological processes are finished, and the taste also improves IMO. from there on its just a matter of storing it and drinking it (the easy part).

 

[felten]

slants are test tubes which have the growth medium inside slanting on an angle so there's more surface area for the yeast/whatever to grow on

 

[kenour]

I thought I had a pretty good grasp of the basics, then all y'all go and start talking about slants and MLF's... Looks like I've gots me some more learnin' to do!

 

[Airgead]

I thought I had a pretty good grasp of the basics, then all y'all go and start talking about slants and MLF's... Looks like I've gots me some more learnin' to do!

Yep... you've shifted into the advanced class. There's no hope for you now...