help, my beer isn't very good.
- Thread starter Zardez
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Rocker1986
Well-Known Member
You'll probably find most of those "lager" cans come with ale yeast. I know the Coopers original series one does. Either way, those temps are too high but I imagine the reason they are on there is because most newbies haven't got a clue about temp control or anything else and it's a reasonably foolproof method to make something half drinkable. I know I didn't when I started and looking back on that first batch, it was shithouse, but at the time I thought it was alright. :lol:
damoninja
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I've actually heard that the kit yeasts are made up of multiple strains to cover a wider temperature range.Rocker1986 said:
My first 4 brews weren't temp controlled but didn't exceed 20 degrees, now that it's warmer I've got my fridge up and running.
Rocker1986
Well-Known Member
Some kit yeasts are a combination ale/lager blend, however all the original series Coopers ones are just a straight ale yeast. Some of the international and Thomas Cooper series ones have the blend, some have straight ale and some have straight lager yeast. No idea about the other brands, never used them. 
Pat Casey
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Zardez what is it you don't like about the beer? And what beer kits have you used? And how long was it in the bottle for?
With these sorts of questions the first thing to work out is whether there are objective faults with the beer, or whether it is a matter of taste. I once had a customer who said all of his beers were turning out terrible, whatever I suggested made no improvement. So I asked him to bring a few in. They were fine. It's just the kits he had chosen were all very bitter, and he did not like bitter beer. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it shows how important it is to have some insight into your tastes.
If you like VB then the best place to start is with a kit which emulates VB such as the Morgans Aus Bitter, or the Coopers Aus Bitter.
It sounds like you are doing the right things with cleaning and sanitation. However, the manufacturers' instructions are terrible. They are failsafe (read idiot) instructions designed to prevent disasters rather than produce a good beer. Yes the can kits have their limitations but you should be able to brew a reasonable beer with them. If you can't then something fundamentally wrong is happening in which case changing yeast or adding various extras will not fix the problem.
Generally a mix of 500g of dried malt extract and 500g of dextrose or sugar is a good accompaniment to most 1.7 kg kits. 100% malt extract is often too sweet. However, the Coopers Aus Bitter has been made to be used with 1.5 kg of their liquid malt extract.
Typically the manufacturers recommend using way to much hot/boiling water. The yeast will generate heat as they ferment so although the ambient temperature maybe good the actual fermentation temperature may be too high which will produce unwanted fermenation flavours. Go easy on the hot water and have 5 or 6 litres of chilled water to mix up with so that you get a start temperature of about 20 degrees. An adhesive thermometer for the fermenter is very useful.
Rehydrating the yeast gives good results, add the yeast to about 150 ml of 25 deg water for about 15 minutes before pitching. When you pitch the rehydrated yeast work some air into the wort with your mixing spoon. Using two 5 or 6 gram packets of yeast is also good.
Leave the beer to ferment, with the hydrometer check fermentation is complete and then leave the beer a couple of more days to clear. Don't leave it too long, especially in warmer weather, as the yeast will start to die and give unwanted flavours to the beer.
If your are using carbonation drops then a couple of days after you have bottled the beer come back and gently invert each bottle a few times. It takes the drops some time to dissolve, they will then sit in the bottom of the bottle as a heavy syrup which the yeast will be slow to ferment. If you don't mix the syrup through the beer it can be flattish and syrupy. Of course the manufacturers don't tell you this.
Generally the beer kits are supplied with an ale yeast, often Mauribrew 514. With beer kits lager just means pale and lightly hopped, pilsner pale and well hopped. The Cooper Euro Lager and Pilsner are both supplied with lager yeasts - unless you can ferment these fairly cool, even cold, then use an ale yeast with them. The yeast supplied with the four Coopers "Selection" range is a blend of ale and lager yeast - or so Coopers told me.
Hope something here helps.
Pat
With these sorts of questions the first thing to work out is whether there are objective faults with the beer, or whether it is a matter of taste. I once had a customer who said all of his beers were turning out terrible, whatever I suggested made no improvement. So I asked him to bring a few in. They were fine. It's just the kits he had chosen were all very bitter, and he did not like bitter beer. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it shows how important it is to have some insight into your tastes.
If you like VB then the best place to start is with a kit which emulates VB such as the Morgans Aus Bitter, or the Coopers Aus Bitter.
It sounds like you are doing the right things with cleaning and sanitation. However, the manufacturers' instructions are terrible. They are failsafe (read idiot) instructions designed to prevent disasters rather than produce a good beer. Yes the can kits have their limitations but you should be able to brew a reasonable beer with them. If you can't then something fundamentally wrong is happening in which case changing yeast or adding various extras will not fix the problem.
Generally a mix of 500g of dried malt extract and 500g of dextrose or sugar is a good accompaniment to most 1.7 kg kits. 100% malt extract is often too sweet. However, the Coopers Aus Bitter has been made to be used with 1.5 kg of their liquid malt extract.
Typically the manufacturers recommend using way to much hot/boiling water. The yeast will generate heat as they ferment so although the ambient temperature maybe good the actual fermentation temperature may be too high which will produce unwanted fermenation flavours. Go easy on the hot water and have 5 or 6 litres of chilled water to mix up with so that you get a start temperature of about 20 degrees. An adhesive thermometer for the fermenter is very useful.
Rehydrating the yeast gives good results, add the yeast to about 150 ml of 25 deg water for about 15 minutes before pitching. When you pitch the rehydrated yeast work some air into the wort with your mixing spoon. Using two 5 or 6 gram packets of yeast is also good.
Leave the beer to ferment, with the hydrometer check fermentation is complete and then leave the beer a couple of more days to clear. Don't leave it too long, especially in warmer weather, as the yeast will start to die and give unwanted flavours to the beer.
If your are using carbonation drops then a couple of days after you have bottled the beer come back and gently invert each bottle a few times. It takes the drops some time to dissolve, they will then sit in the bottom of the bottle as a heavy syrup which the yeast will be slow to ferment. If you don't mix the syrup through the beer it can be flattish and syrupy. Of course the manufacturers don't tell you this.
Generally the beer kits are supplied with an ale yeast, often Mauribrew 514. With beer kits lager just means pale and lightly hopped, pilsner pale and well hopped. The Cooper Euro Lager and Pilsner are both supplied with lager yeasts - unless you can ferment these fairly cool, even cold, then use an ale yeast with them. The yeast supplied with the four Coopers "Selection" range is a blend of ale and lager yeast - or so Coopers told me.
Hope something here helps.
Pat
bry2
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This is slightly off topic, but pat do you know for sure which kits use mauri 514? I know coopers don't and can taste the difference.
Theres lots of opinions as to what yeasts are used in kits like morgans and black rock but I haven't seen any definitive proof or comparisons with the Actual mauri yeast. It would new handy to know for sure when designing beers.
Theres lots of opinions as to what yeasts are used in kits like morgans and black rock but I haven't seen any definitive proof or comparisons with the Actual mauri yeast. It would new handy to know for sure when designing beers.
Pat Casey
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For the Morgans Export/Premium range the yeast packets were labelled as Ale or Lager (Blue Mtns Lager, Stockman's Draught, Golden Saaz Pils). The yeasts were Mauribrew 514 and 497 respectively. For their Australian range it was the 514 in plain packaging. All the yeasts now for their kits are plain silver packaging and I assume it is Mauribrew 514 because I have not had any comments from customers about changes in the beer.
I have asked the Morgan's rep for confirmation.
I am not sure about the Black Rock and Mangrove Jack kits. They are supplied with a packet of "Premium Brewing Yeast". Some years ago Black Rock changed their yeast because of complaints that it was not suitable for Australian (hot) conditions. I have asked the distributor for more information about the yeast.
I reccomend the new Mangrove Jack Craft yeasts. 10 gram sachets with attenuation and flocculation information plus a brief description of the yeast's character.
Pat
I have asked the Morgan's rep for confirmation.
I am not sure about the Black Rock and Mangrove Jack kits. They are supplied with a packet of "Premium Brewing Yeast". Some years ago Black Rock changed their yeast because of complaints that it was not suitable for Australian (hot) conditions. I have asked the distributor for more information about the yeast.
I reccomend the new Mangrove Jack Craft yeasts. 10 gram sachets with attenuation and flocculation information plus a brief description of the yeast's character.
Pat
user 31723
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I like Mini Mash's advice. One of the best thing I did was get to know my local brew shop. They know a lot of stuff but especially they know the environment where you live and the weather conditions. Talk to them about kits and additions, they know a lot and they want your business so get in there and get in their radar.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Depends on the particular brewshop. Some great, some shit.
