Gruit

[murrayr]

thanks absinthe, very useful link.
and yeah the only place that absinth with any real amount of thujone in it is the czech republic i believe. i think that's what we mean when we say it's illegal here. or at least that's what i mean.
and i believe a modern interpretation of gruiut today generally incorporates yarrow, bog myrtle and marsh rosemary, though you are right MHB, there was no general ingredients back when it was the popular choice

 

[seravitae]

absinthe is schedule 8 which means importation without authorisation is bad. however wormwood as a plant itself isn't illegal in aus, and making absinthe inside australia should not be either.

 

[murrayr]

maybe i'll have to try making a proper absinth when i get my still set up as well, cheers

 

[absinthe]

maybe i'll have to try making a proper absinth when i get my still set up as well, cheers

try a friench Absinthe much smoother and nicer (plus you will get the louche) than the czech absinth stuff.. http://www.wormwoodsociety.org/ http://www.feeverte.net/ two good site with recipes and you can buy through them too

 

[murrayr]

thanks absinthe. have you experimented with wormwood in beer?
if so how did you find it?

 

[notung]

thanks absinthe. have you experimented with wormwood in beer?
if so how did you find it?

I made a wormwood ale a few years back, an extract brew using only liquid amber malt extract and wormwood as bittering/flavouring agent. Basically, it was horrible. I would try again though using artemisia amongst other additives. Like Dave Bonta's recipe for 'mugwort anti-imperial stout'. It sounds delicious!

I have since learned the origins of our name for wormwood, Artemesia absinthium. 'Absinthium' is Greek, meaning 'undrinkable'. A cup of wormwood-steeped wine was handed to the winners of the games on Mt Olympus, to remind them of the bitter taste of failure so victory would not go to their heads.

 

[murrayr]

i've heard using any more than a small amount can make it too bitter. how much did you use and for how long in the boil?

 

[manticle]

Having tried both eastern European and traditional French style absinthes and having involved myself with interest in its history and development, I can honestly say that I prefer beer.

A cultural history of absinthe by Phil Baker is a great read but it doesn't make the liquor taste any better. If you want to hallucinate I suggest other things may suit you better.

I think any legal issues with bringing wormwood into Aus maybe to do with plant import restrictions and quarantine. I'm not convinced it was ever illegal here, although I could be wrong.

 

[murrayr]

i don't want it to add any psychotropic effects to my beer. i just want a small amount to give it a little bitterness. one source has told me that any more than 10g in the boil is too much, but i was hoping someone had successfully brewed with this herb could tell me how they went about it
cheers, murray

 

[manticle]

Just a general response to the derailment of the thread rather than a specific response to yourself.

 

[murrayr]

topic of this thread.....oh yeah...gruit!
fair enough. probably just end up using a very small or safe amount of wormwood in it anyway. let the flavour come through the other herbs

 

[absinthe]

topic of this thread.....oh yeah...gruit!
fair enough. probably just end up using a very small or safe amount of wormwood in it anyway. let the flavour come through the other herbs

i havent tried a wormwood beer.. but to test the IBU why not boil about .5 grams of POR hops for 60 mins in a measured amount of water then use your favorite brew program to tell you what the IBU is then compare with the same amount of wormwood? it might give you some idea of the bittering power

 

[murrayr]

good idea. i'll give that a go next week after i go to the lilydale herb farm to get said wormwood.
cheers

 

[King Brown]

im 99% sure wormwood is still illegal. besides you dont actually need it. there's a safe substitute herb that gives the same flavour. Besides wormwood is nasty nurotoxin stuff in it. give it a miss. you can get the flavour from other herbs. oh an there;s differant sorts of wormwood. the one most commonly used in abseinth back in the day is damn hard to find but less toxic varieties (without the weird compound) are available in australia. there's a few threads on wormwood and herbs on AHB. Jovial Monk started one and so did Temple of Seth.

gruit was a term given to the hop replacement misture used when hops were banned back in medievil times. the actual ingredients in gruit changed depending on beer. As previously mentioned Mosher's Redical Brewing rocks this topic.

I've purchased wormwood oil from a healthfood store about a year ago, if its a low concentration I think its legal (the bottle reccomended only three teaspoons a day, and not for longer than three days)

Keep in mind that Yarrow is suppose to cause allergies for some people, and that wild rosemary is toxic. In Moshers book he reccommends using substitutes of various other spices.

 

[murrayr]

yeah, but i've also read other books that highlight the health benefits of the aforementioned herbs.
and in the quantities i plan to use them there won't be any health issues.
randy mosher's radical brewing is a fine read but it does come from the us of a where any herb mildly pschotropic or fun is banned for health reasons. this is just my opinion as i am the son of a hippy.
aside from that i really want to make the gruit as traditional as i can which entails the use of wild rosemary yarrow and bog myrtle....whats the worst that could happen?
cheers

 

[MHB]

yeah, but i've also read other books that highlight the health benefits of the aforementioned herbs.
and in the quantities i plan to use them there won't be any health issues.
randy mosher's radical brewing is a fine read but it does come from the us of a where any herb mildly pschotropic or fun is banned for health reasons. this is just my opinion as i am the son of a hippy.
aside from that i really want to make the gruit as traditional as i can which entails the use of wild rosemary yarrow and bog myrtle....whats the worst that could happen?
cheers

You could end up with a mind like Ozzy Osbourne, but without the money.

MHB

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You might get more than you bargain for from the Yarrow too - I was reading an article recently that talked about it being notorious in ye olde Europe for causing craziness and frenzy in drinkers when used as an ingredient in ale.

Other herbs you might use are (from the article)

Bog Myrtle (the most common herb used)
Yarrow
Betony
Common Tansy
Wormwood
Wild rosemary (although it is supposed to give an "unpleasant kind of drunkenness)
Pennyroyal
Lemon Balm
Ground Ivy/Alehoof/Tunhoof
Sage
Mint
Broom
Cardis
Dandlion
laurel
and maybe "good hay"

maybe you could use lemon myrtle instead of bog myrtle??

Sorry I cant help personally. Just stuff I read in Brewer and Distiller this month.

TB

PS - if wormwood was ever illegal in Australia, it never stopped me or my sister from being able to buy it at the herbalist/healthfood store. Nor grow it in teh backyard. I've bought it several times over the last decade, and made absinth out of it once too... nasty tasting stuff, sooner lick a cane toad.

 

[Infinitee]

Nothing wrong with a dash of psychotropia

Yarrow is mildly psychoactive as well, though mostly a relaxant/sedative/hypnagogic agent.

If wormwood is too much trouble, but you still want the thujone flavour/effect in your drink, I'd recommend using sage.
It has fairly high concentrations of thujone as well (just don't use an overpowering quantity or variety of sage).

Plenty of bittering agents out there ...

Ouch! Smack bang in the gruits.

 

[bum]

i don't want it to add any psychotropic effects to my beer. i just want a small amount to give it a little bitterness.

I hear hops are good for this. I'm quite keen to give it a go myself one day.

 

[notung]

If you're after instant wormwood, you can always grab a bag of dried stuff at Happy High Herbs in Smith St, Fitzroy. Once you know the plant, you'll find it in front yards everywhere. The chook run here is encircled with it because of its insecticidal properties.

I have an OLD yarrow ale still sitting around in bottles. I brewed up a kit, probably a coopers real ale or bitter then added handfuls of dried yarrow tops into secondary and let sit for 2 weeks. I'd say the brew has a mild lactic flavour which actually adds to the refreshing taste. The yarrow bitterness has an interesting effect on the palate, but I don't have the vocab to describe it.