Grassy/vegetal flavours in pale ale but no other styles

[yankinoz]

I can’t think of a worse choice of acids than citric (well maybe Oxalic....),
[/QUOTE]

I'll take citric over hydrocyanic.

 

[MHB]

Point, hard to buy Prussic without an EUD, police check, a good gas mask...

 

[yankinoz]

Point, hard to buy Prussic without an EUD, police check, a good gas mask...

I've heard certain notorious Gemans carried it in handy capsule form, but presumably not in brewing . Das ist Reinheitsgebot nicht.

In brewing I use phosphoric (if at all), never citric, but what is the knock on the latter? Too lemony a taste?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Thanks guys.

I know citric isn't exactly revered by aficionados the world over but it was better than nothing and all I could get locally on the day. I read people don't generally like the taste but thought I'd just see for myself and can't actually taste it as yet so have just kept on using it

 

[MHB]

Persistant sourness that caries right through to the finished beer. Well all acids taste sour but Citric is the most sour tasting of the useful acids.
If you want a good example taste Salvital (the stir in fizzy drink) its made with Tartaric acid and Bicarbonate. Citric is way cheaper but if you made a mix of Citric and Bicarb (at the right ratio) it would be undrinkably sour.

Have used both Phosphoric and Lactic; choose Lactic for two main reasons. First is I prefer the taste of beer made with lactic. Second is that something like 90% of the acidity in a pale beer comes from naturally occurring Lactic acid growing on the outside of the malt, so we are just adding a little more of something that occurs naturally in the mash. There are a couple of other factors like the buffering ability of Lactic that lead me to favour it but they are the main two.
Mark

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Just sampling the proper made pale I bottled from dregs that wouldn't fit in the keg. It's only a week old and sat hot outdoors at somewhere around 35 degrees so has carbed up fully.

Impressions? Apart from the tiniest bit acetaldehyde that I dare say will disappear in a couple more days (and you really have to look for it) this beer is a 10/10. I wouldn't be able to pick it wasn't made by someone like Feral if it was bought in some trendy pub. The hop flavour is off the charts, along with a moderate/strong nose of the 10gms centennial hop hash I placed in dry three days from crashing. It's a citrus bomb and funnily enough reminds me of mandarin, that's what I get from Centennial, though there were copious amounts of Cascade and Mosaic for all bittering in the whirlpool

Thanks so much guys, you've really helped a brother out so cheers to you!!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

A better pic, appears a little darker in photos for some reason. Like a proud Dad. Look at my son, look at what I've done!!

 

[An Ankoù]

View attachment 121551
Just sampling the proper made pale I bottled from dregs that wouldn't fit in the keg. It's only a week old and sat hot outdoors at somewhere around 35 degrees so has carbed up fully.

Impressions? Apart from the tiniest bit acetaldehyde that I dare say will disappear in a couple more days (and you really have to look for it) this beer is a 10/10. I wouldn't be able to pick it wasn't made by someone like Feral if it was bought in some trendy pub. The hop flavour is off the charts, along with a moderate/strong nose of the 10gms centennial hop hash I placed in dry three days from crashing. It's a citrus bomb and funnily enough reminds me of mandarin, that's what I get from Centennial, though there were copious amounts of Cascade and Mosaic for all bittering in the whirlpool

Thanks so much guys, you've really helped a brother out so cheers to you!!

That looks a lovely pint. It's only 3.5C and thick, grim, grey drizzle here in sunny Brittany, but I could happily sit on the terrace and drink a pint of that. What recipe did you use, if that's not an impertinent question?

 

[An Ankoù]

A better pic, appears a little darker in photos for some reason. Like a proud Dad. Look at my son, look at what I've done!!View attachment 121552

Nah, that's not a better picture. Half of it's gone missing!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Haha, Gold mate

It's actually the Pirate Life pale ale recipe I got from the head brewer just without the Carafa. Pale, carahell, medium crystal, bittering at flameout to 45ibu

 

[An Ankoù]

Haha, Gold mate

It's actually the Pirate Life pale ale recipe I got from the head brewer just without the Carafa. Pale, carahell, medium crystal, bittering at flameout to 45ibu

Unheard of here in France, but I've found a couple of recipes online with 5-star ratings so I'll give it a go. I see they they also do a Mosaic IPA, n harm in trying that one, too.
All the best.

 

[An Ankoù]

Inspired by Doctormcbrewdle's enthusiasm for Pirate Life Pale Ale, I decidd to have a go, since I'd never heard of it before this thread and the chances of it ever turning up in France are negligible. Found a couple of recipes and with some guidance from the venerable Doc, I've got what I reckon is a pretty good recipe. We'll see.
So, with Pale Ale Malt from Ireland, Carahell from England and Crystal malt from England, Carafa from Germany. Hops from Germany and the U.S. water from France and Yeast from Canada I'm putting together an Aussie interpretation of an American Pale Ale. What could possibly go wrong!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Just done making another. Mash pH was 5.3 with 1tsp citric acid. Then after that I checked calibration again my tap water and it had gone out 1 full point higher.. messing around with the samples I found it must have something to so with temperature because placing it into my cold water sample it would start correct while warm from the wort sample and slowly rise a full point higher than it should have. So really who knows exactly where I mashed in but if my assumptions are correct it was 5.3.

Final wort after hops thrown in a cold, I'm choosing to adjust to pH 5 before pitching the yeast. (pH 6 with my meter in it's current state..)

Have reordered some calibration solution along with storage solution and will never measure even remotely warm wort again

 

[yankinoz]

Just done making another. Mash pH was 5.3 with 1tsp citric acid. Then after that I checked calibration again my tap water and it had gone out 1 full point higher.. messing around with the samples I found it must have something to so with temperature because placing it into my cold water sample it would start correct while warm from the wort sample and slowly rise a full point higher than it should have. So really who knows exactly where I mashed in but if my assumptions are correct it was 5.3.

Final wort after hops thrown in a cold, I'm choosing to adjust to pH 5 before pitching the yeast. (pH 6 with my meter in it's current state..)

Have reordered some calibration solution along with storage solution and will never measure even remotely warm wort again

By point higher, do you mean up to 5.4 or to 6.3? The first is no worry, the second about three times larger than corrections from mash temps usually specify.

It's a recurring topic. For a discussion with several links, see Setting the Record Straight on Mash pH - Brew Your Own

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I mean an entire point higher, ie: 7 to 8pH (my water is 7.2 but was reading 8.2 after checking the mash vs normal water to make sure it was still calibrated, which it wasn't) I did check the calibration before this though so am sure it was OK to begin the mash with. After the next warm reading was when the meter jumped a point.

Thanks for the link, will take a look

Edit, the article talks about a plus 0.35 reading for warm mash samples, which is understandable, though my meter must be bugging out because I cooled the sample and checked again afterwards and it still read the same.. it is cheap rubbish though, one of those $10 jobs from Ebay

I'll be happy enough to get a couple of accurate readings using my town water and knowing how much acid to use per lager or pale ale because that's mainly what I make. Hopefully this next calibration will be accurate enough for at least a couple more brews, fingers crossed

 

[An Ankoù]

Inspired by Doctormcbrewdle's enthusiasm for Pirate Life Pale Ale, I decidd to have a go, since I'd never heard of it before this thread and the chances of it ever turning up in France are negligible. Found a couple of recipes and with some guidance from the venerable Doc, I've got what I reckon is a pretty good recipe. We'll see.
So, with Pale Ale Malt from Ireland, Carahell from England and Crystal malt from England, Carafa from Germany. Hops from Germany and the U.S. water from France and Yeast from Canada I'm putting together an Aussie interpretation of an American Pale Ale. What could possibly go wrong!

Said brew is well and truly underway having been ten days, now, in the fermenter. It doesn't look like @Doctormcbrewdle 's version because I put the Carafa in. As it was for colour, I went with the Carafa Special #3 by Weyermann. It's astonishing what such a small quantity of black malt can do to the colour!! If I make a second batch I'll leave it out, I think. The dry hop charge went in when the wort had cooled to 75C and steeped for 30 minutes before cooling to pitching temperature. Pitched with CML "Five", which is a standard Chico yeast repackaged for a Scottish company. This is instead of the Canadian offering, which, last time I used it, was a bit "eggy".
Just going to have a taste.
... smells and tastes great straight out of the fermenter. It's flat, of course and there's just a tad of astringency on the finish. I reckon that's being carried on the slight yeast haze that's still present. I'll bottle it up tomorrow if the FG is there, and it tastes as though it is. Can't wait for this one to carb up so I can toast the Doc's good health with it.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Good to hear all's going well with it An

Yes, Pirate has been known to experiment a little with their recipes, I remember a time on both extremes where I had one that was almost bright red and also once where I thought they'd accidental popped a brown ale in the can once poured into a glass. Both tasted great though.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Made a pils this morning using 95% fresh caught rainwater so will be interesting to see how this pans out in a few months. Just added some acid and gypsum.

Recalibrated my pH meter but think it's broken. It reads perfectly in all three solutions but every single beer I have on tap and including a bottle of Grolsch tested reads 4.7pH and does not waiver one bit, which I find hard to believe is accurate. My water now reads 7.8pH and rainwater 6.5ph.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Update

@Unslaven thanks so much for your wisdom man. Truly, I have been making the best beers time after time now lately. Going down the pub with a mate tomorrow and I'm already dreading drinking tap beer I know it's not going to be as nice as what's at home on tap. Just wanted to say thanks so much. Really appreciate it man so cheers!

 

[Unslaven]

Hey doc,
Super happy to hear you got the issue sorted. I'm glad I could pass on some of the knowledge taught to me. Nobody wants more bad beer in the world, and I feel you about being forced to drink commercial.

With the amount you seem to be brewing, I would suggest splashing for a decent pH meter. Decent measurement tools (Gravity/Temperature/pH) are the absolute key to consistancy (and Dissolved oxygen and Co2 if you have a spare $30k haha) Just note when buying pH meters that pH probes are a consumable resource (and very fragile), so don't buy a $1000 meter thinking your done for good, when replacement probes are $400. Even the kegland/kegking PH meters aren't bad, and probes are cheap, but ATC is a myth. Get every sample as close to the calibration temp as you can.

(If you don't do this already) Fill a bucket with ice then top up to the ice line with some water. Put a small wort sample in something like a stainless coffee cup and swoosh it round in the top of the ice. I can knock a 100c sample down to 25 in under 20 seconds (metal cup is key for this). Just make sure you transfer back to plastic when you measure, as the conductivity of the stainless will ruin your measurements.

Of course, if what your doing is working, then don't fix it?

Happy brewing!