Grain for stout- soaking them

[philrob]

I do not like the way you reply questions!! I do not know anything at all but try to damn learn and damn frustrated with your bullies! But no choice as you are the one i need his advise. I read exactly what you wrote after first google i.e. "Gelatinize"! Thats why I oven baked barley which was a damn mistake!

I know Mark personally. He is definitely not a bully, as should be evident from the many posts he has, giving detailed information to so many questions. OK, some of his replies might be seen to be abrupt to some, but even a basic search about brewing generally will give answers to basic definitions of the brewing process. Just accept the way he responds, and learn from his wisdom!

Here's another link which should be helpful. This is the online 1st edition of this book, and the print version is now up to version 3+, but the basic information is still relevant. Definitely worth a read, and should answer most of your questions.

Welcome to How to Brew - How to Brew

 

[Stoichiometrist]

I know Mark personally. He is definitely not a bully, as should be evident from the many posts he has, giving detailed information to so many questions. OK, some of his replies might be seen to be abrupt to some, but even a basic search about brewing generally will give answers to basic definitions of the brewing process. Just accept the way he responds, and learn from his wisdom!

Here's another link which should be helpful. This is the online 1st edition of this book, and the print version is now up to version 3+, but the basic information is still relevant. Definitely worth a read, and should answer most of your questions.

Welcome to How to Brew - How to Brew

This forum has a wealth of knowledge and good advice. But the cost of receiving that information should not be being belittled or vilified. The original poster made it clear that they did find these comments unpleasant. And they did this without resorting anger or abuse.
As a fellow newIsh homebrewer, reading the posts I found it discouraging to say the least.
Is it just or fair to respond by projecting our own experiences and saying suck it up? I think more should be expected from the moderators,

 

[philrob]

I understand your comments, but I'm not able to change anyone's personality or approach. It is what it is. I myself don't find it is personally abusive or insulting. If you consider it breaches one of the site rules, report the comment and point out which rule it breaches. We can then deal with it as appropriate. There's nothing to stop you to not read his comments, if that's your wish.

 

[Miran]

I know Mark personally. He is definitely not a bully, as should be evident from the many posts he has, giving detailed information to so many questions. OK, some of his replies might be seen to be abrupt to some, but even a basic search about brewing generally will give answers to basic definitions of the brewing process. Just accept the way he responds, and learn from his wisdom!

Here's another link which should be helpful. This is the online 1st edition of this book, and the print version is now up to version 3+, but the basic information is still relevant. Definitely worth a read, and should answer most of your questions.

Welcome to How to Brew - How to Brew

Tnx for the link. We are learning from you guys!

 

[Stoichiometrist]

I understand your comments, but I'm not able to change anyone's personality or approach. It is what it is. I myself don't find it is personally abusive or insulting. If you consider it breaches one of the site rules, report the comment and point out which rule it breaches. We can then deal with it as appropriate. There's nothing to stop you to not read his comments, if that's your wish.

I will leave it up to Miran to make the call on that. I guess my point is that someone has expressed concerns, and the Moderator response was "Just accept the way he responds."
I work in a very hierarchal industry where bullying is typically subtle and pervasive. Most of the time people are not aware they're doing it.
Happy to leave it there.

 

[Miran]

I will leave it up to Miran to make the call on that. I guess my point is that someone has expressed concerns, and the Moderator response was "Just accept the way he responds."
I work in a very hierarchal industry where bullying is typically subtle and pervasive. Most of the time people are not aware they're doing it.
Happy to leave it there.

They worked hard and spend alot of time and money to learn and now sharing with us for free! I accept it and am going to suck it up I remove my hat for these guys! Anyway I also need to learn to be patient,work harder and do not get frustrated too easily. Cheers to you all! I enjoy being part of these community!

 

[hoppy2B]

Miran,

I recommend that you read 'How to Brew' by John Palmer. It is an online book well suited to beginners. It is free and easy to find. Just google 'How to Brew'.

 

[MHB]

Its a two way street, go back and have another look at the thread.
I politely asked what he was trying to achieve and the response was to take a shot at me (yes there's some history there), if he thinks my reply was terse he's probably right, you get what you give.
Bit bemused by the notion that apparently in the hour between my saying pearled barley needs to be gelatanised and him deciding to shove some in the oven (certainly not my idea) and mash it with undesirable results it has in some way become my fault.
Like I said, it goes two ways, ask a question and I've shown over the last 15 years or so that I'm happy to engage in a conversation. There is an alternative, probably be far less fun for either of us, turn up be rude, post lots of crap, take shots at people... When you get a serve in return, I'm a bully.
Ok I'll leave it there (provisionally)

Just a note it took a couple of minutes to find Flaked Barley at the home brew shop in Darwin (if that's what you call town), they didn't have any Roast Barley but had Black Malt (Patent), looks like that and what you have would have been enough to make a pretty good stout. Mind you if I was an AG brewer in Darwin I would be looking for alternative suppliers, very limited range.
There are 3 microbreweries in Darwin, I know a couple of years ago, at least one of them was happy to help out home brewers with malt, might be worth a couple of phone calls.
Mark

 

[Miran]

Its a two way street, go back and have another look at the thread.
I politely asked what he was trying to achieve and the response was to take a shot at me (yes there's some history there), if he thinks my reply was terse he's probably right, you get what you give.
Bit bemused by the notion that apparently in the hour between my saying pearled barley needs to be gelatanised and him deciding to shove some in the oven (certainly not my idea) and mash it with undesirable results it has in some way become my fault.
Like I said, it goes two ways, ask a question and I've shown over the last 15 years or so that I'm happy to engage in a conversation. There is an alternative, probably be far less fun for either of us, turn up be rude, post lots of crap, take shots at people... When you get a serve in return, I'm a bully.
Ok I'll leave it there (provisionally)

Just a note it took a couple of minutes to find Flaked Barley at the home brew shop in Darwin (if that's what you call town), they didn't have any Roast Barley but had Black Malt (Patent), looks like that and what you have would have been enough to make a pretty good stout. Mind you if I was an AG brewer in Darwin I would be looking for alternative suppliers, very limited range.
There are 3 microbreweries in Darwin, I know a couple of years ago, at least one of them was happy to help out home brewers with malt, might be worth a couple of phone calls.
Mark

Mark, I am not here to quarrel which seems you enjoy alot! I am going to ignore you from now on My apology to rest of you guys!

Anyway, There are three home brewer suppliers in Darwin area, Two OZbrew ( by different owners) and a new one "Darwin home brewer supplies" which is closed on Saturday and Sundays which I am free. Long time before your comments I mentioned that I have bought both lactic acid and flaked barley from grain and grape.I checked two without outcome and nothing on third one websites! Furthermore there are more microbreweries than three now in Darwin but I have not been in them or asked them any question till now but tried IPA of one of them "One miles" which is great!

 

[GrumpyPaul]

I reckon everyone's had their say on each other's response style, how they are perceived etc etc yadda yadda yadda.

Let's just leave it there and get back to talking about grains for stouts.

 

[Miran]

I reckon everyone's had their say on each other's response style, how they are perceived etc etc yadda yadda yadda.

Let's just leave it there and get back to talking about grains for stouts.

i ll come back to you after reading the books and brewing some SMASH Don't want to look like a dump any more. Cheers buddy.

 

[Grmblz]

Sometimes when we speak in a foreign language, or listen to a person who's first language is not ours, things get lost in translation.
Doing it in person with all the visible cues is hard enough, written communication without those cues can be unbelievably difficult.
As Kadmium once stated "my sarcastic sense of humour seems to get lost in the written word" or words to that effect.

It's obvious that Mirans' first language is not English and as such perhaps we should "read between the lines" a little bit, and not take what he says so literally but try to decipher what it is he is trying to convey.
Factor in cultural differences, for example, deference to the elders, and the kindness/wisdom expected from them, and effective communication can become a real mine field.

I don't expect any English speaker that has never lived in a non English speaking community to fully understand just how hard it is to do, learning the language is just the beginning, the real challenge comes after that. And no, two weeks in Bali doesn't count

I'm not having a go at anyone (well apart from Kad maybe, but he deserves it, the sarky ******* ) just an alternative view on what appears (to me) to be communication difficulties.
btw Miran, it's "Chump" not "dump" unless you want to go full Aussie in which case it's "dumb arse"

Cheers G

 

[kadmium]

Well said!

 

[Miran]

Sometimes when we speak in a foreign language, or listen to a person who's first language is not ours, things get lost in translation.
Doing it in person with all the visible cues is hard enough, written communication without those cues can be unbelievably difficult.
As Kadmium once stated "my sarcastic sense of humour seems to get lost in the written word" or words to that effect.

It's obvious that Mirans' first language is not English and as such perhaps we should "read between the lines" a little bit, and not take what he says so literally but try to decipher what it is he is trying to convey.
Factor in cultural differences, for example, deference to the elders, and the kindness/wisdom expected from them, and effective communication can become a real mine field.

I don't expect any English speaker that has never lived in a non English speaking community to fully understand just how hard it is to do, learning the language is just the beginning, the real challenge comes after that. And no, two weeks in Bali doesn't count

I'm not having a go at anyone (well apart from Kad maybe, but he deserves it, the sarky ******* ) just an alternative view on what appears (to me) to be communication difficulties.
btw Miran, it's "Chump" not "dump" unless you want to go full Aussie in which case it's "dumb arse"

Cheers G

Honestly after working for 15 years all around the world have too much difficulty to understand a lot of slangs you guys are using I am sure of one thing.. NO Surrender, I am going to learn brewing and hopefully you guys will tolerate this new dumb arse

 

[Miran]

It depends on what type of stout you are looking to make. If you want to go for a simple dry irish stout similar to a Guiness, then I would suggest upping the roasted barley, dropping the oats and carapills and adding flaked barley.

Should be similar to:
3kg pale malt (Maris Otter would be best if you can get it)
1kg flaked barley
500g roasted barley

Aim for a low mash ph, you can add acidulated malt if you can get it otherwise I use lactic acid.

Willamette or Fuggles or similar hops to about 30ibus try both a 60m and a 30m addition maybe around 20:10 IBU

US-05 is fine or notty yeast.

Really depends on your efficiency and equipment setup in terms of quantities, usually the best way is to either convert a recipe for your system or speak in percentages.

 

[kadmium]

Hey hey! That's looking good mate!!

 

[Miran]

Dry Irish Stout according to your procedure tomorrow

 

[kadmium]

Dry Irish Stout according to your procedure tomorrow

Great work. Make sure you write down the process, keep tabs on all the figures etc so you know what to change next time.

Aim for a mash around 66c if you can, and try to get the Mash PH down to around 5.2 if possible.

Hope it turns out well, a nice dry Irish stout is hard to beat on a hot day!

 

[kadmium]

Dry Irish Stout according to your procedure tomorrow

And let us know how you go! Any questions just ask, happy to help out best I can.

 

[Miran]

And let us know how you go! Any questions just ask, happy to help out best I can.

I did two all grain using BM plus 20 liters. One brew, 20 liters /week. Main aims now is to get consistent OG and PH and then playing with adjunct to get desired FG. I do not know what I have to do with all these wort and beers. Seems my colleagues and house mates are happier than me with all these strange taste beers.

First batch was Irish Stout. target OG 44, PH 5.2. None of them achieved I used my own excel sheets for PPG, DP and IBU calculation following How to Brew book and this forum suggestions. Ambient temperature was about 35 deg C and seems this was the main issue for me and my hydrometer. I could not get consistent readings. Hydro reading were fluctuating between 30 and 40. On top of that PH was less than 5.
I googled and find some info about adjusting gravity using sugar. Was so reluctant to do it but no choice! I found hydrometer out of calibration too late.Hydrometer could n't read water gravity properly at 20 degree C. Final OG after adding sugar was about 46. checked later in two days using new meter and it was at 55.
I calibrated PH meter using some solution and checked it using zero coke (PH 3.2) it was working fine. Finally add some gypsum to raise the PH. was not sure how much so added tiny little bits till finally get to 5.17.

Going through water chemistry is a little bit difficult to me. Honestly I guess still too soon for me! But seems water management is damn vital. First brew I used 15 liters of water ( 3 liters/kg) and heater element and pump were screaming... not enough water in machine! I do not remeber how much more water I added. Just used tap water. sparging with 70 degree water (7 liters). Finally I had about 20liters wort ( after 60 minutes mash at 66) and 75 minute boil.

Two hops addition at 60 and 30 minutes. Both Fuggle targetting IBU 30. Alpha acid written on package so different from generic values on website. On package mentioned 8% and on Web 4.5. I used Web ones for calculations.

Second brew I googled alot for grain bills for milk stout. Finally went for my own crazy bills but all supported with calculations which now am not sure are right or not! 2.5 kg schooner (PPG 35, DP 150) , 0.5kg roasted barley (PPG 22, DP 0) 0.5kg crystal malt (PPG 29, DP 0). .25kg munich malt ( PPG 35, DP 40 added for maltiness and a little bit increase in DP), 0.75 flaked oat from Woolie (PPG28, DP 0). Mash: 20 minutes 40 deg C, 20 minute 45 deg C and 60 minutes 67 deg C followed by 75 minutes boil. Considered machine efficiency 0.85 (Which is not!). water used this time was initially 25 liters ( I guess this was the main issue... too much!) After mash gravity was 37 too far from my calculation 0.55. Again adjusted using sugar to final value of 47. Water PH was 6.66 and after finishing boil was 5.3. total wort after boil and adding 7 liters sparge was about 22 liters ( I planned for 20 liters but so tired and resented myself to continue the boil)

Sorry the story went too long and boring. I guess as Kadmium said I have to sit and check my machine effciency and make sure of its application in my calculations. Will do an SMASH next Saturday ( adding a little bit crystall, for its caramel color)

Next brew I need to check Initial water calculations and sparge..... Have to learn it.

Any input is highly appreciated my good brewmasters