Goodbye Bronwyn

[Ducatiboy stu]

Flanno. Ruggers. Footy socks and boots encrusted in **** and clay.
Whats not to love?

Didnt know you made Mr July

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

So, you consider allowing an unsupervised apprentice to complete electrical work, potentially beyond their capabilities, as good business practice. It horrifies me seeing apprentices and newly minted tradespeople on building sites attempting to perform work that is obviously beyond their capability.

I cry sometimes when I see the quality of apprentices and new tradesmen come thru.

I tell blokes that my first 3 months of my apprenticeship involved filing, bluing, drilling, marking...... True & proper hand skills.

Some of these new guys coming thru scare the bejezzuz out of me. None of the pride in workmanship. Get in, get it done quick, move on...

I think its sad that we have let our skillsets as proper tradesmen decline to the point when a new builder cant even sharpen a ******* chisel properly


And anyone who doesn't think that apprentices go around doing unsupervised work....even laborers for that matter.......

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Fair go. Firstly, The guy sound like he has put numerous apprentices through their trade and secondly you have no idea how he charged his clients.

2. The 2 he put on to replace me and the other bloke.

And one was a chick. And he got extra ( above the subsidy he already got ) from the tax payer because of it. something to do with getting more females into trades..etc..etc

 

[goomboogo]

Wait.....isn't this how trade businesses work?

You think he should not have trainees doing the work but an un-qualified laborer?

I'm so confused...

You keep mentioning labourers. No one in this thread has said anything about labourers performing the work of qualified tradespeople. I agree with your final sentence in the above post.

 

[Burt de Ernie]

I cry sometimes when I see the quality of apprentices and new tradesmen come thru.

I tell blokes that my first 3 months of my apprenticeship involved filing, bluing, drilling, marking...... True & proper hand skills.

Some of these new guys coming thru scare the bejezzuz out of me. None of the pride in workmanship. Get in, get it done quick, move on...

I think its sad that we have let our skillsets as proper tradesmen decline to the point when a new builder cant even sharpen a ******* chisel properly


And anyone who doesn't think that apprentices go around doing unsupervised work....even laborers for that matter.......

This is where performance briefs and defect inspections take over. If its not right...pull it out and start again.

 

[Lemon]

Stu,
All skills that are history now. No longer current, not required. That's why they are not taught or valued.
Apprentices should be supervised commensurate with their level of skill and training. As you said it is on the license holder's head if anything goes wrong.
The reason that work is done quick, in and out, and training is done to meet those ends, is because that is the expectation that we have built into the society.

We've got what we asked for.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Just because their boss had a licence doesn't mean they were adequately supervised, it just means it's his nuts on the block if there is fault.

Lot off boss's out there who regularly hug the guillotine.......some have very smooth nuts because of it

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

This is where performance briefs and defect inspections take over. If its not right...pull it out and start again.

BAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Burt de Ernie]

I have never said that you can get payed less than the award.

What I am saying is that the employer can put you on a lesser award

This is how employers get away with paying a person less

Just because you have certain skills does not automatically mean you will be payed the award you have the qualifications for

I was a labourer for a Sparky, employed as a labourer, but in reality I was more qualified then they guys I was working for. But I was employed a a labourer and payed the award for being a labourer. There was another bloke who was a qualified auto electrician. He to was employed a labourer and payed the award as a labourer

Why where we doing these jobs. Simple really. There was **** all work and bills had to be paid

I have skills sets that could put me on nearly twice what I earn now, but there are no jobs out there available at present.

But I suppose I could have always gone on the dole instead

I know you dont believe it, but it does happen

So stop banging on about your utopian ideals. What you think and what is reality are 2 very different things

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

We've got what we asked for.

Unfortunately we have.

As can be seen in the quality of our politicians in general, from ALL sides

 

[Burt de Ernie]

Is what it is....accept it or move on...

 

[spog]

No I didnt do anything of the above.

Pram, cot, blankets, clothes, stuff...lots of stuff only useful for babies.....

Know way on gods earth I could even afford beers at the pub they cost so much, let alone a flat screen TV.

Thank god I was brewing more than I thought I could drink

TIP: Baby formula tins hold 1kg nicely. In fact the first ring from the top is exactly 1kg. I didn,t even use scales in the end.

Must have had 30-40 tins full of everything from Vienna-Xtal-choc-Roast Barley




Anyway...back to the show h34r:

Those baby formula tins are indeed handy I still have many in my shed that are 25 yrs old the plastic lids keep dust and crap out of them.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Is what it is....accept it or move on...

Why should we just accept it ?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Those baby formula tins are indeed handy I still have many in my shed that are 25 yrs old the plastic lids keep dust and crap out of them.

I used to store them upside down.

Stopped the mice getting thru the lid

 

[Burt de Ernie]

Why should we just accept it ?

You don't have to I guess.

Maybe we all should start a business and employ twice as many people as needed and pay them all twice as much as the going rate....

 

[goomboogo]

Stu,
All skills that are history now. No longer current, not required. That's why they are not taught or valued.
Apprentices should be supervised commensurate with their level of skill and training. As you said it is on the license holder's head if anything goes wrong.
The reason that work is done quick, in and out, and training is done to meet those ends, is because that is the expectation that we have built into the society.

We've got what we asked for.

We've come to accept planned obsolescence in electrical items such as televisions, phones and fans. If a fan stops working after 2 years we are not surprised and just buy another cheap fan. Many electrical items can be made to last much longer but this doesn't suit current business models. I wonder if one day we will accept such a proposition with residential housing.

 

[manticle]

Maybe we should start a business and pay people half the going rate would be a step closer to the truth.
Apprenticeship scheme is a good thing if used properly - ie get experienced staff, get apprentices, train apprentices properly using experienced staff to do so.
Apprentices are not a budget measure - they are an investment which is why they are subsidised.
Could invest in tech colleges again. Would go a long way.

And apprentices get ripped off by unscrupulous employers too.

 

[Burt de Ernie]

Apprentices are not a budget measure - they are an investment which is why they are subsidised.

I disagree with this. Their cost effectiveness is what gains their employment and their career.

 

[spog]

I cry sometimes when I see the quality of apprentices and new tradesmen come thru.

I tell blokes that my first 3 months of my apprenticeship involved filing, bluing, drilling, marking...... True & proper hand skills.

Some of these new guys coming thru scare the bejezzuz out of me. None of the pride in workmanship. Get in, get it done quick, move on...

I think its sad that we have let our skillsets as proper tradesmen decline to the point when a new builder cant even sharpen a ******* chisel properly


And anyone who doesn't think that apprentices go around doing unsupervised work....even laborers for that matter.......

" sharpen a ******* chisel properly". Oh,oh now you've got me started....FFS in the last 5 yrs at least I have not worked with one apprentice that knows how to sharpen a chisel let alone set and sharpen a hand saw ! Drives me to despair.
They buy the hardened tooth hand saws ." It only cost $10:00 " and then complain that they are buying 10 per year ! And it's costing them.
To be honest it's the way things are but they are not taught this as the 2 weeks by 4 times a year trade school in Adelaide is a thing of the past. Where we were taught ****.
A bloke visits the site every 2-3 months and checks their modules ( home work books) and questions them on its contents.
Any muppet can bull and bluster through that crap......and....ah **** it,the system wants numbers and the system gets want it wants regardless.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Apprentices are not a budget measure - they are an investment which is why they are subsidised.
Could invest in tech colleges again. Would go a long way.

And apprentices get ripped off by unscrupulous employers too.

Training an apprentice is a costly exercise, and not just in terms of money. The time it takes to sit down and show them how to sharpen a chisel properly is time consuming.

A good trainer/mentor will make the time to show some one how its done properly.

Rather than " Here is a youtube clip on how to sharpen a chisel"