Glass Or Plastic Carboy For Secondary?

[symphony1975]

hi there, i am doing extract with grains brewing and am about to have a crack at transfering from my primary to a secondary for further conditioning......the key things i have been reading is...

1. have little to no air space in the secondary to help prevent oxidisation

2. use glass instead of plastic as plastic can over time leech air into your brew...

but plastic carboys are cheaper than glass and being on a budget, i am wondering if i can get away with using plastic. any opinions?

i have seen a few threads mentioning people using cubes for secondary.....what does that mean?

thanks for your help, this site is an invaluable resource tool.......

 

[felten]

How long are you planning on conditioning for? I imagine the longer you condition for the more the oxygen permeability would matter. A few months probably isn't a big deal.

Also a cube is a jerrycan... but cube shaped, they're interchangeable.

 

[Yob]

hi there, i am doing extract with grains brewing and am about to have a crack at transfering from my primary to a secondary for further conditioning......the key things i have been reading is...

1. have little to no air space in the secondary to help prevent oxidisation

2. use glass instead of plastic as plastic can over time leech air into your brew...

but plastic carboys are cheaper than glass and being on a budget, i am wondering if i can get away with using plastic. any opinions?

i have seen a few threads mentioning people using cubes for secondary.....what does that mean?

thanks for your help, this site is an invaluable resource tool.......

should be ok with plastic mate, many people make do without glass, having said that glass is def. better and will last a lifetime, cubes relate to those square plastic containers / water drums you can pick up from Bunnings or any other good supplier, try to get the ones with a plug in the bottom so while you are at it get a few extra taps.

minimal headspace is great, but more important si to not let it oxadise while you are transferring, try to minimise splashing and get some good silicone hosing to do your transferring via, I use a smaller piece that fits into my fermenter tap and a put a larger hose onto this, but I am thinking of changing this to a larger hose that fits OVER the tap in one piece..

 

[Wolfy]

Many people make great beer using plastic fermenters.
If you're making an ale you may not even need to use a secondary.
In terms of a lager, in theory glass would be better for the secondary, but as you said they're more expensive, they are also more difficult to handle and siphoning from glass fermenters also adds additional complexity compared to a plastic fermenter or cube with a tap.

 

[haysie]

many people make do without glass, having said that glass is def. better and will last a lifetime,

Since when does glass last a lifetime



edit, i use the better bottles ( not very often any more), they are ok but you better be careful with their smallprint, warranty disclosures. PM me for further explanation.

 

[MeLoveBeer]

John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff on the brew strong podcasts are recommending better bottles these days (plastic fermenters) rather than glass carboys; I think if I was deciding on a path, I'd probably check them out. I think that better bottles would be a bit limiting for primary fermentation (they are slightly smaller than the 30 litre fermenters I'm used to), but would probably be fine for secondary.

The one thing that I've noticed is that better botles tend to be more expensive, but I like the idea of being able to monitor the ferment and see what the yeast is doing without the risk of breakage.

Better bottles aside, I use traditional plastic fermenters myself and have never had an issue.

 

[Bribie G]

John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff on the brew strong podcasts are recommending better bottles these days (plastic fermenters) rather than glass carboys; I think if I was deciding on a path, I'd probably check them out. I think that better bottles would be a bit limiting for primary fermentation (they are slightly smaller than the 30 litre fermenters I'm used to), but would probably be fine for secondary.

The one thing that I've noticed is that better botles tend to be more expensive, but I like the idea of being able to monitor the ferment and see what the yeast is doing without the risk of breakage.

Better bottles aside, I use traditional plastic fermenters myself and have never had an issue.

In Australia we are pretty unique in using our 'barrel' style fermenters, elsewhere in the world they use white bucket with snap on lid (as I did in the UK) or glass carboys. I would guess that John and Jamil are totally unaware of our own idiosyncratic (and bloody excellent) fermenters and the better bottle (which I assume is some sort of drinking water container) is widely available in the USA and is thus being pressed into service in Home Brewing. Maybe we should get a collection/ whip round going and post them one of our 30L :lol:

Edit: about 35 years ago when I was in Israel working on a kibbutz (insert hippy icon) we had Oz style barrels in abundance as we were a dairy kibbutz and they were filled with cream and sour cream and yogurt for shipment. I nicked one and made some very strong alcoholic ginger beer in one, (insert icon of 60 hippies getting rat arsed at Hannukah) and when I arrived in Australia I instantly recognised our lubberly barrels. I wonder if they arose here because of our strong primary industry need for containers as in Israel?

 

[haysie]

Plastic doesnt long either



This is one of my bb bottles that i cleaned incorrectly, my tap water was above 52deg

 

[Bribie G]

Haysie you are a destruction droid.

 

[haysie]

Haysie you are a destruction droid.

In my journey of finding a ahalf decent fermenter that isnt $799 and doesnt fit in a fridge... well yes :blink: Gotta roadtest em all.

 

[Wolfy]

This is one of my bb bottles that i cleaned incorrectly, my tap water was above 52deg

Wow, that's a bit ... pedantic/soft of them, I'm sure our tap water is above 52.

 

[haysie]

Wow, that's a bit ... pedantic/soft of them, I'm sure our tap water is above 52.

Unfort its the truth Wolf.... take a read>

We have just returned from a long trip to the US. While there we met with the President of Better Bottle and discussed another case like this. A brewer here in WA added a very strong commercial type Sodium Hydroxide solution to a bottle and it split the bottom. There are 2 primary causes to Better Bottles cracking while cleaning:

1) Heat: when certain chemicals are added to water, the chemical reaction produces heat that exceeds the rating of the Bottle. The recommended cleaning temperature maximum is 52 deg. C (please see the website on cleaning for more information). The bottles are rated to 60C but cleaning at this temperature plus the addition of chemicals may well exceed the maximum.

2) Mechanical action: Heat, or again where chemicals come in contact with water, the reaction of the mix may be expansion or contraction. If the bottle is closed or the mix can seep into closed spaces, this may cause a failure.

In this case, I can imagine that a small amount of Percarbonate solution may have been left on the neck. Becoming trapped between the o-ring/closure area, plus the heating above the recommended temperature, and the expansion due to oxygen forming, may have all contributed to the creating a crack in the bottle.

Recommendations: reduce the temperature to less than 52C, thoroughly clean the neck free of chemicals, and follow the websites recommended rolling/sloshing method. Also, for all of your customers, please have them avoid using sodium hydroxide based chemicals. We know that these tend to cause the most damage. Especially when soaking parts like the Simple-Flo Valve which can crack due to mechanical expansion.

Better Bottle offers no warranty unless the bottle can be proven defective. This is unlikely due to the stringent QC at the factory.
Unfortunately due to the misuse or handling, honouring a refund or replacement bottle may cause a flurry of so called "claims".



edit, forgot to say..... burnt.!

 

[MeLoveBeer]

@haysie How do you find BB's overall? I've been thinking about picking a couple up for use as fermenters and using my traditional plastic fermenters as bottling buckets/backup fermenters. Whats the maximum batch size they can handle?

 

[haysie]

@haysie How do you find BB's overall? I've been thinking about picking a couple up for use as fermenters and using my traditional plastic fermenters as bottling buckets/backup fermenters. Whats the maximum batch size they can handle?

great for cropping, maximum volume 21ltrs, overall? i feel a little ripped off! Wouldnt touch/purchase another one. Willl brew in em again though, I got 3.

:wub:beer, they are expensive, all the parts needed etc, Save your money and ferment in a fishtank, that will save me buying one or 3

edit,... all the bb fittings are imperial versus our metric, another joiner/downer

 

[MeLoveBeer]

great for cropping, maximum volume 21ltrs, overall? i feel i little ripped off! Wouldnt touch another one.

edit,... all the bb fittings are imperial versus our metric, another joiner/downer

Thanks Haysie, I'll steer clear then.

 

[onescooter]

My 2c, I have a better bottle with all the accessories and I love it. Takes a little getting used to and there are definately negatives, but for me the biggest plus is the ease of cleaning and sanitizing. It is also nice to see what is going on inside aswell. I always felt uneasy with my bucket, and in my circumstances, better bottle is the way to go.
Thanks
Scott.

 

[haysie]

My 2c, I have a better bottle with all the accessories and I love it. Takes a little getting used to and there are definately negatives, but for me the biggest plus is the ease of cleaning and sanitizing. It is also nice to see what is going on inside aswell. I always felt uneasy with my bucket, and in my circumstances, better bottle is the way to go.
Thanks
Scott.

Cleaning is as all threads on AHB>> debatable.
Watching fermentation if your thing.... great :blink: I couldnt care less for watching though. Really watching a few bits rise and fall interest people?
Maybe a yank vrs aussie fermenter brewday will tell the difference?

 

[Malko]

Can't you just use a 15ltr never fail water bottles?

they're cheaper than the better bottles and a damn lot cheaper @ $12 for a 15ltr bottle plus you get some water with it too.

 

[haysie]

Can't you just use a 15ltr never fail water bottles?

they're cheaper than the better bottles and a damn lot cheaper @ $12 for a 15ltr bottle plus you get some water with it too.

Yes , you can. I have used a couple for aged beers. No tap though so syphon. The waxy type seal that comes with them is very easy to fit up a blow off to them. The downside is 13ltrs doesnt fill a corny.
Better bottles have far more advantages over the springwater bottles imo, they are just soooo expensive i.e ported bottle, tap assembly, lid bung, airlock and a length of s/s rod to disassemble wont leave you much coin from $120.
I brew a lot of big beers and beers with yeast that like to eat everything, for me the ease of cleaning a bottle with 2-3 ltrs of warm water to sparkling clean in 10 minutes beats the shit out of trying to wash a bucket when one has had a big beer and the krausen is now a month old, especially that silly design right angle on the lid. Brewed a weizenbock a few mnths ago in a bucket with gladwrap, it overflowed after replacing the clingwrap a couple of times, a month later trying to clean it I gave up and its now another water bucket for the dogs.