Getting Sick Of Tipping Beer Out

[Jamieman]

Hi Jamie

One thing I have learnt from the guys here is to leave it in the fermenter a few extra days or even a week. As long as its sealed up, nothing is going to get there and it gives the yeast and hops a little extra time to settle.

My latest brew has been finished for a few days, I got three sequential readings of 1.012 I'm gonna leave it another day or two, then cold crash at around 4-7 degrees (as cold as I can get in a fridge that doesn't work with lots of bottles of ice) for 3-5 days.

Don't give up!

Thanks man.
That's what i will be doing.

I am new to fermenting in a fridge & new to true lager yeast.
Been getting close to my FG, just that it drops so slowly at low temps compared to ale temps i think i was fooled into thinking it was done.

 

[Jamieman]

Jamie,
Another reason for the over carbing could be that if you bottled while the beer is cold, there would be more co2 contained within the beer than if you bottled at room temperature. If using carb drops, drop back to one maybe (probably better to be under carbed), or move to bulk priming where you can control your carbonation levels easier. Beersmith has a carbonation tool which will calculate how much sugar (or dextrose) you require to get your desired carbonation levels, based on your beer volume and temperature at bottling time (only useful for bulk priming).
Cheers

Thanks
This is a factor too as I was chilling down to about 5 deg prior to bottling.
I use dex & a measure.
Will be cutting back on it now.

 

[bum]

Cheers man.
I have moved on as I stated a couple of posts back.

As for posting so many times re my brewing (a whole 22 posts), i thought this was a home brew forum.

Given I originally posted at 7.28 (first time with this prob brewing at low temp with lager yeast) & you replied 1 1/2 hrs later stating i don't listen. Was i meant to quickly do a batch, try an extended ferm time, bottle & age some how in an hour and a half to show i listened & report back that all was fixed?

I think Haysie may have confused you with another user named jamieh. I know I did when I first saw the thread (but realised my error while reading your post). Had it been the same guy I assume Haysie is talking about he might have deserved such a reply. Try not to take it to heart.

When you say you're getting close to your expected FG - what does this mean?

 

[thesunsettree]

Hi Jamie

One thing I have learnt from the guys here is to leave it in the fermenter a few extra days or even a week. As long as its sealed up, nothing is going to get there and it gives the yeast and hops a little extra time to settle.

My latest brew has been finished for a few days, I got three sequential readings of 1.012 I'm gonna leave it another day or two, then cold crash at around 4-7 degrees (as cold as I can get in a fridge that doesn't work with lots of bottles of ice) for 3-5 days.

I've done a couple of brews since joining these forums and the best thing I've done to them is to leave them that little bit longer in the fermenter. Try it for your next brew and see how you go. You might find that the yeast isn't quite done yet and that's whats causing your overcarbing. And the other thing I've learnt is not to throw anything, although I'm considering one that is loaded with tannins thanks to some dodgy instructions that came with the recipe kit. Even if I do chuck it, I'm gonna keep a bottle or two to see what happens to it later on down the track.

Don't give up!

i'm with u siborg,

leave it the fermenter for longer than is neceassarily required. i like to leave my ales in for 18 days, prob 7/8 days more than required (and many will prob say thats too long - yeast bite etc but i've never noticed any issue nor anyone who has drank my beers) i find that the finished product is much more settled in the glass and head retention (possibly coincedental) is better. short ferment times (for me) seem to procure 'jumpy' beers in the glass where as when allowed time to 'mellow' out in the fermenter the seem much more 'cruisy' in the glass. i guess u could rack to secondary if concerned about leaving it on the cake, but as i said i have had no issues what so ever, and i reg use s04, which doesnt seem to enjoy a great reputation around here, but i like it :unsure:

 

[Jamieman]

I think Haysie may have confused you with another user named jamieh. I know I did when I first saw the thread (but realised my error while reading your post). Had it been the same guy I assume Haysie is talking about he might have deserved such a reply. Try not to take it to heart.

When you say you're getting close to your expected FG - what does this mean?

No worries & apologies to Haysie if that is the case.

Expected FG was 1012 ( based on kit & kilo but with different yeast) & i got to about 1014/5 & it didnt move from there for 2 days. Different yeast would have given me a different FG and i didnt take that into account either.
I think i should have waited longer + like Dmac said, it would have required less dex because it was bottled at a low temp.
I need to wait longer to reach correct FG & calculate correct priming (per haps bulk prime).

I am learning.

 

[Jamieman]

i'm with u siborg,

leave it the fermenter for longer than is neceassarily required. i like to leave my ales in for 18 days, prob 7/8 days more than required (and many will prob say thats too long - yeast bite etc but i've never noticed any issue nor anyone who has drank my beers) i find that the finished product is much more settled in the glass and head retention (possibly coincedental) is better. short ferment times (for me) seem to procure 'jumpy' beers in the glass where as when allowed time to 'mellow' out in the fermenter the seem much more 'cruisy' in the glass. i guess u could rack to secondary if concerned about leaving it on the cake, but as i said i have had no issues what so ever, and i reg use s04, which doesnt seem to enjoy a great reputation around here, but i like it :unsure:

Thanks man,

I will be more patient in the future.
Got some willow cubes to rack to.
I will prob get some brewing software to help me with priming rates for certain temp ranges (Beersmith or the like)


I think i was a little hasty in titling this thread, just that I cracked 2nd brew done in the fridge at low temp & it was gassy as well.
Maybe should have chilled a bit before i posted.

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[Tony M]

Well i'm just about to tip out my third batch in as many weeks.

The third, same. It tastes as it should, but why so over carbed?? Same bottle prime as usual.

What am i missing?

Cheers

Jamie

If you fermented at 12C you already have 1.12 volumes of CO2 in your beer. Read this, it will enlighten you

http://www.brewery.org/library/YPrimerMH.html

Cheers.

 

[Jamieman]

If you fermented at 12C you already have 1.12 volumes of CO2 in your beer. Read this, it will enlighten you

http://www.brewery.org/library/YPrimerMH.html

Cheers.

And there lays part of my problem.

Thank you very much sir.

 

[thesunsettree]

Thanks man,

I will be more patient in the future.
Got some willow cubes to rack to.
I will prob get some brewing software to help me with priming rates for certain temp ranges (Beersmith or the like)


I think i was a little hasty in titling this thread, just that I cracked 2nd brew done in the fridge at low temp & it was gassy as well.
Maybe should have chilled a bit before i posted.

Thanks for all the help guys.

hi jamie,

just make sure u dont over-complicate the process espec in the early days (prob no need for software at this stage. use the carb graph or bottle at room temp) as soon as u can move to kegs, forced carb in kegs can be done when ur completely off ur face, just remember to tell the missus what time ur primed it up so u calc the off time later on. and a lot less waiting time to condition, money can be the issue but aim for the sky cos IT IS possible to soar like an eagle, take time if/when necessary to build up equipment, u WILL be rewarded

brew on
matt

 

[Siborg]

i'm with u siborg,

leave it the fermenter for longer than is neceassarily required. i like to leave my ales in for 18 days, prob 7/8 days more than required (and many will prob say thats too long - yeast bite etc but i've never noticed any issue nor anyone who has drank my beers) i find that the finished product is much more settled in the glass and head retention (possibly coincedental) is better. short ferment times (for me) seem to procure 'jumpy' beers in the glass where as when allowed time to 'mellow' out in the fermenter the seem much more 'cruisy' in the glass. i guess u could rack to secondary if concerned about leaving it on the cake, but as i said i have had no issues what so ever, and i reg use s04, which doesnt seem to enjoy a great reputation around here, but i like it :unsure:

Yeast bite=autolysis, yeah? You reckon leaving the brew on the yeast cake at 0-5 degrees temperatures would cause this? For ale yeasts, wouldn't they be dormant at or around these temps? I'm asking a hypothetical: If you had a fermented brew sitting on the cake at a steady 1 degree, couldn't you, theoretically, leave it on the cake forever and not suffer to autolysis/yeast bite? At the lower temps, the yeast would be dormant so, lacking nutrients, they wouldn't start eating each other.

I'm asking this because if I were to have a recipe that needs to be conditioned in a secondary for 1-2 weeks after primary fermentation, then racked to a priming vessel and bottled, couldn't you just store it around 0-5 degrees to save the effort of racking twice?

I haven't used anything except for US05 yeast so far (and the stuff that ships with coopers kits before that). I might try S-04 for a few english styled beers.

 

[fcmcg]

Siborg,
About a month or so ago , there was a poll on how many rack to secondary...it was interesting...alot used to and don't anymore...some still do...

 

[warra48]

Yeast bite=autolysis, yeah? You reckon leaving the brew on the yeast cake at 0-5 degrees temperatures would cause this? For ale yeasts, wouldn't they be dormant at or around these temps? I'm asking a hypothetical: If you had a fermented brew sitting on the cake at a steady 1 degree, couldn't you, theoretically, leave it on the cake forever and not suffer to autolysis/yeast bite? At the lower temps, the yeast would be dormant so, lacking nutrients, they wouldn't start eating each other.

I'm asking this because if I were to have a recipe that needs to be conditioned in a secondary for 1-2 weeks after primary fermentation, then racked to a priming vessel and bottled, couldn't you just store it around 0-5 degrees to save the effort of racking twice?

I haven't used anything except for US05 yeast so far (and the stuff that ships with coopers kits before that). I might try S-04 for a few english styled beers.

This is based on my experience.
My latest APA used US05. It was fermented for 9 days at 18C, then dry hopped into primary, and the temperature dropped to 3C for another 19 days.
I bottled out of primary 4 weeks post brew day.
It's probably the cleanest clearest APA I've ever brewed, and has a fine head which lasts all the way to the bottom of the glass.

 

[Siborg]

Siborg,
About a month or so ago , there was a poll on how many rack to secondary...it was interesting...alot used to and don't anymore...some still do...

So instead of racking to secondary, just leave it on the cake for a while?

 

[Screwtop]

Yeast bite=autolysis, yeah?

Do some searches and reading on Autolysis, takes a looooooonnng time. Longer than most of us homebrewers would be leaving beer on the yeastcake.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[warra48]

So instead of racking to secondary, just leave it on the cake for a while?

Yep.

 

[wambesi]

I'm asking this because if I were to have a recipe that needs to be conditioned in a secondary for 1-2 weeks after primary fermentation, then racked to a priming vessel and bottled, couldn't you just store it around 0-5 degrees to save the effort of racking twice?

Yes. As mentioned a lot of people no longer rack to secondary, and if they do it is usually for a secondary fermentation such as fruit or other such addition.
IMO if you are simply racking to a secondary vessel to condition it for 1-2 weeks you are not only wasting time but also increasing risks of possible contamination.

I never rack anymore myself but I always cold condition in the primary vessel on the yeast cake at about 1-2deg for at least a week or three, I've even stopped adding finings as I find this CC'ing clears the beer up nicely.
Just my 2c.

 

[Siborg]

Yes. As mentioned a lot of people no longer rack to secondary, and if they do it is usually for a secondary fermentation such as fruit or other such addition.
IMO if you are simply racking to a secondary vessel to condition it for 1-2 weeks you are not only wasting time but also increasing risks of possible contamination.

I never rack anymore myself but I always cold condition in the primary vessel on the yeast cake at about 1-2deg for at least a week or three, I've even stopped adding finings as I find this CC'ing clears the beer up nicely.
Just my 2c.

Cool. That's kinda what I was thinking. I just did that with my last brew. Was cold conditioned and fined with gelatine for about a week. Probably should have left it longer, but I was in need of some beer and I can't force myself to drink any of my brothers megaswil.

 

[thesunsettree]

Yeast bite=autolysis, yeah? You reckon leaving the brew on the yeast cake at 0-5 degrees temperatures would cause this? For ale yeasts, wouldn't they be dormant at or around these temps? I'm asking a hypothetical: If you had a fermented brew sitting on the cake at a steady 1 degree, couldn't you, theoretically, leave it on the cake forever and not suffer to autolysis/yeast bite? At the lower temps, the yeast would be dormant so, lacking nutrients, they wouldn't start eating each other.

I'm asking this because if I were to have a recipe that needs to be conditioned in a secondary for 1-2 weeks after primary fermentation, then racked to a priming vessel and bottled, couldn't you just store it around 0-5 degrees to save the effort of racking twice?

I haven't used anything except for US05 yeast so far (and the stuff that ships with coopers kits before that). I might try S-04 for a few english styled beers.

hi mate,

i have no personal issue with leaving it on the yeast cake, i meant other brewers might. i cant really answer ur question categorically but i havnt experienced any detrimental tastes by leaving the fermenter at ambient tempfor as long as 25 days (average 18 days as part of normal ferment process).

once when i moved house i racked 2 brews to 2 kegs and they were left unfiltered in the kegs in the garage at ambient temp for around 3 months. time restraints kept me from brewing but when i got back on my feet i polyclared, chilled and filtered in my normal 24hr period. there seemed to be some obvious 'tastes' that were not evident in any of my other brews, none the less i drank them and my mate drank some also, without complaint happy to pour another. obviously thats not advisible and these new 'tastes' where most likely a result of extended exposure to yeast at warm temps but hey, i could still drink it.

as for ur theory of very low temp (which i am certainly not qualified to answer :icon_cheers: ) it sounds like it would be ok, but i have heard some ppl advocate racking to secondary for extended conditioning periods. i have read a bit of negativity on this forum about s04 but i personally like it a lot - i have just entered the final stages of my 'brew with shitloads of malt" period so s04 may not be so popular in the near future but i'm sure it'll still have it place.

cheers
matt

 

[BjornJ]

This is a discussion on this topic on another forum:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/autolysis-101230/index5.html

Someone e-mailed Wyeast and got some info back around autolysis.

Basically the response for how long before autolysis is "it depends".
Depending on temperature, yeast stress, etc the guy from Wyeast says it will not be a problem AT LEAST for several weeks.
He also says that pH will increase when the yeast cells start to break down.

Another thing is that he explains that autolysis do not happen in the bottle due to low cell count in the liquid of yeast/ml.

I have never left beer longer than a couple of weeks myself, but I have always thought that several months would be ok?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

If you are willing to learn over time - the Ph thing could be really useful for working out how long you can leave stuff in primary before you start to see ill effects in your brewing practise.

Take a pH of your final beer. Now pour out your yeast cake, give it a good stir (just to make the mixture homogeneous) and filter a bit of it through some paper towel - take a Ph reading of that. Much more than 0.5 difference in the two readings and autolysis has started to occur at levels you might notice.

Note: I don't do this, I haven't tried it - its a "homebrewer" mod of a method used by SAB and detailed in the Journal of Brewing. It may be useless.