Getting into Kegging

[Nullnvoid]

So I'm very slowly getting into kegging. Have a co2 bottle already. The reg and other bits are due to arrive today. Still need to find a 19l keg as cheap as I can.

I currently have a mini keg which I have been playing with and it's working out well. Obviously now I do not wish to bottle. I have a few issues. I only have space in a fridge for the minikeg.

What I am hoping to do is after fermentation putting the fermented wort into the 19L and minikeg. Then as the minikeg empties fill from the 19L. So a few questions as I have no idea (in life in general). I have tried to search the **** out of this and also youtube with various amounts of success.

1. Once in the 19l keg do I need to carbonate that so I can transfer into the minikeg each time, or can I just hold it in there and transfer each time? Then carbonate in the minikeg?
2. Does this make sense or is it better to keep the 19l carbonated at all times.
3. There is no third point.
4. It's my understanding you can carbonate at room temp but it takes longer and uses more gas? Correct?
5. Does it matter the 19l keg will be stored at room temp?
6. To do the Ross method of keg to keg transfer, does the 19L keg need to be carbonated or does it just need enough pressure to get the beer moving.
7. What haven't I thought off as a question that I need answered?

Now helpful suggestions as "Just get another fridge", or "You will need a few kegs", or "Get another fridge", whilst helpful, are not feasible at this juncture, and if this is the actual answer to the problem, I will have to continue on my bottling ways until money and permission allows (I do not wear the pants in my house, even the dog gets the pants before me).

Any help would be greatly appreciated so I too can enjoy beer on tap.

 

[abyss]

Mate you could naturally carb the 19l keg. I often do this when doing large batches and only add around 85g of Dex and leave the keg in my wardrobe for a few weeks.

 

[Matplat]

So I'm also just looking down this road, and tried putting my 19l keg in my bar fridge, don't fit....

However if I could move the cooling coil, it would. I'm sure I have read of people bending the cooling coil flat against the back wall of the fridge.

Would this work for you? Also, can anyone else confirm or reject my rumour?

I can't see a reason why you would need to carbonate before transferring. The whole process generally sounds fairly onerous, transfer-chill-carb-drink-repeat how many times will you have to do that per batch?

Instead of getting another fridge, could you replace your existing fridge? They are so cheap second hand....

 

[mtb]

1. Once in the 19l keg do I need to carbonate that so I can transfer into the minikeg each time, or can I just hold it in there and transfer each time? Then carbonate in the minikeg?
2. Does this make sense or is it better to keep the 19l carbonated at all times.
6. To do the Ross method of keg to keg transfer, does the 19L keg need to be carbonated or does it just need enough pressure to get the beer moving.
You could carbonate in the 19L, but in doing so you'd need to invest in a spunding valve to do your pressure transfers - or **** about with pulling the pressure relief valve on the receiving minikeg. This is because you generally want to avoid transferring from a pressurised vessel to an unpressurised one, the flow rate will be too high and you'll end up with 10% beer and 90% foam. One caveat to this is that, when keg transferring, you could de-pressurise the 19L and then re-pressurise low so the flow rate isn't crazy. You will waste some CO2 doing this though.
3. There is no third point.
4. It's my understanding you can carbonate at room temp but it takes longer and uses more gas? Correct?
Correct, not sure just how much longer, I'd be interested to know this too.
5. Does it matter the 19l keg will be stored at room temp?
No, in fact I think it's a good thing as long as it doesn't sit there for month(s)
7. What haven't I thought off as a question that I need answered?
You'd be surprised how many people would give away a fridge for free, just for the convenience of having it removed. Got a mate with a ute? Jump on Gumtree, you might be surprised at what you'll find.

 

[mtb]

Mate you could naturally carb the 19l keg. I often do this when doing large batches and only add around 85g of Dex and leave the keg in my wardrobe for a few weeks.

One thing to note there abyss, as the 19L empties, the headspace will reduce in pressure. It would need to be topped up with the CO2 bottle. Not an issue, but a consideration.

 

[MitchD]

I'd keep an eye on Gumtree for a fridge, plenty of "broken" fridges on there that only need a new thermostat (stc1000) or a good clean.

I'd be warey of the cheapest kegs as they often cost the most to keep functioning, I just picked up 3 for $30 but had to throw $70 of parts plus a bit of time cleaning them up and putting back together. If id spent any more on the kegs a new keg king would be a wiser purchase.

 

[mtb]

I just picked up 3 for $30 but had to throw $70 of parts plus a bit of time cleaning them up and putting back together

3 kegs for $100 plus a bit of your time? Sounds pretty good to me

 

[malt junkie]

Have to agree with the dedicated fridge. How ever transfers are easy when done right. You need to conect both liquid and gas post of the kegs together, the recieving keg lower, both at equal pressure, pull the relief valve of the recieving keg just till you have flow, gravity will complete the transfer, remove liquid connection when recieving keg is full or as filled as required. This method should create little to no foam and will retain carb in both kegs.

 

[Grott]

As you know I gave 2 x 4 litre mini kegs and this is what I do for them as I use them as "when required" I have a 19 litre keg (others 9.5 & 12 l) to which I put in a fermented brew with the balance going into one of the 4l mini. I purge both kegs. I fill the other 4 litre and subsequent others (as needed) by putting the mini keg tap I use on the 19l keg, connect gas at 8psi and pour the beer into the the 4 litre keg, holding it at about 30-40 degree angle. I get no foam and it fills nicely. I then purge the keg. I the put the 4 litre in the fridge 2 days before needed. 24 hours later I force carb the mini by connecting the gas bottle to the gas in at 30psi, lay the keg on its side and rock for 30 seconds. Keg back in fridge and 6 to 8 hours before needed connect the mini reg and gas bulb at 10psi serving pressure. This has worked perfect (touch wood ) 8 times.
Hope this helps.

 

[Grott]

Just noted you get your reg today, check if reg has a non return valve. If not, suggest you put one in the line before you force carb. This is to protect your regulator from getting an unwanted drink.

 

[blotto]

However if I could move the cooling coil, it would. I'm sure I have read of people bending the cooling coil flat against the back wall of the fridge.

Would this work for you? Also, can anyone else confirm or reject my rumour?

Yep done this myself I can take a photo on Wednesday but there is not much to see really. The cooling coil used to be the bottom of the freezer section at the top and I took out the screws and drip tray and slowly and carefully bent it down against the back of the fridge. I use it for fermenting and it just fits my SS brew bucket.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Instead of getting another fridge, could you replace your existing fridge? They are so cheap second hand....

See, the problem is, the existing fridge is the main food fridge inside. Don't think I would be on good terms if I got rid of that

Mate you could naturally carb the 19l keg. I often do this when doing large batches and only add around 85g of Dex and leave the keg in my wardrobe for a few weeks.

Yeah good idea, I hadn't thought of that! See there is one of those things I hadn't thought off.

 

[Nullnvoid]

The problem I have with getting a new fridge is I am not allowed too. I know I can get them cheap, or free if I tried, but I have neither the support at home or the space.

If anyone can come up with an answer to the argument "Fridges are too bloody expensive to run, you are not getting another one", then I would love to hear it.

Doesn't solve the space issue though......

 

[Nullnvoid]

As you know I gave 2 x 4 litre mini kegs and this is what I do for them as I use them as "when required" I have a 19 litre keg (others 9.5 & 12 l) to which I put in a fermented brew with the balance going into one of the 4l mini. I purge both kegs. I fill the other 4 litre and subsequent others (as needed) by putting the mini keg tap I use on the 19l keg, connect gas at 8psi and pour the beer into the the 4 litre keg, holding it at about 30-40 degree angle. I get no foam and it fills nicely. I then purge the keg. I the put the 4 litre in the fridge 2 days before needed. 24 hours later I force carb the mini by connecting the gas bottle to the gas in at 30psi, lay the keg on its side and rock for 30 seconds. Keg back in fridge and 6 to 8 hours before needed connect the mini reg and gas bulb at 10psi serving pressure. This has worked perfect (touch wood ) 8 times.
Hope this helps.

Just noted you get your reg today, check if reg has a non return valve. If not, suggest you put one in the line before you force carb. This is to protect your regulator from getting an unwanted drink.

Thanks Grott, this is actually really helpful! This is the sort of thing I had hoped to do, however unlike you I can't chill the 19L easily.

Turns out Australia post is **** and my regulator and bits didn't arrive. Only coming from Wodonga and it's been a week. Currently stuck in Sunshine!!! It is a Keg King dual guage jobbie from cheeky peak. I will have a look when it eventually arrives and see if it does. And look into the non return valve!

 

[Grott]

I don't chill the 19l, it is at room temp as per the mini kegs.
Glad this was helpful, cheers

 

[Nullnvoid]

Then it sounds like you do exactly what I am trying to achieve!

 

[Matplat]

The problem I have with getting a new fridge is I am not allowed too. I know I can get them cheap, or free if I tried, but I have neither the support at home or the space.

If anyone can come up with an answer to the argument "Fridges are too bloody expensive to run, you are not getting another one", then I would love to hear it.

Doesn't solve the space issue though......

Here are some rough figures for annual fridge power consumption

http://www.canstarblue.com.au/appliances/kitchen/refrigerators/how-much-energy-does-a-refrigerator-use/

Then remind your other half, how much money you save by home brewing

 

[Grott]

Also tell her you can make savings with the freezer as you can bulk buy those frozen specials. Room is an issue but if you look hard enough when it comes to beer you'll find it.

Plan the attack so you can present the all up package:-
-find the fridge and the cost
-find the space
-present the running costs down to weekly (looks better) and suggest something you could give up to cover it, eg bought beer?
-freezer usage is for her
-cost of a homebrew pint (or pot or what ever size in QLD) vs bought, in a pub

present this as a package and don't forget to cry.

Good luck









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[laxation]

Can it be your birthday/christmas present? h34r:

 

[malt junkie]

I picked up an upside down 520l fridge freezer for $60. Suposedly sort of working, its fine, holds 6 kegs, freezer has my hops and yeast, and all the frozen specials (mainly bulk meat). This is my overflow/conditioning fridge has 5 kegs currently, that 100l of liquid @ 3°c means it barely comes on. I have no plans to add taps to this one but easily could, maybe, one day.