Gelatine Has No Fining Ability

[plaidpaint]

My LHBS told me that commercial finings are gelatin. Just in a different package. I normally take what they tell me with a grain of salt, but I'm surprised that they would give away that particular secret if it wasn't true, considering they can make money selling finings, and not gelatin.

Also, agar is essentially gelatin as well, derived from seaweed, rather than animal byproducts, so would presumably create a similar result, but be vegetarian friendly Although if you use the same agar that you're using to slant yeast, then it might have nutrients mixed in, which might confuse the issue.

 

[Fourstar]

Also, agar is essentially gelatin as well, derived from seaweed, rather than animal byproducts, so would presumably create a similar result, but be vegetarian friendly Although if you use the same agar that you're using to slant yeast, then it might have nutrients mixed in, which might confuse the issue.

Agar is negativly charged much like yeast cells are so it will repel (or so ive read), gelatin is + charged so it will attract yeast cells to improve the flocculation rate. Agar may be better suited to kettle finings where the pH is higher and work on polyphenols? I dont know enough about it to answer fully but with it being neg charged it shouldnt work on yeast. The only thing it will be doing is 'gelling' it on the bottom of the keg/fermenter.

 

[MHB]

Active discussion, is for me what AHB should be all about, certainly not interested in a fight nor do I see any point.

Before anyone starts one I never said "Gelatine" has no fining ability. Gelatine is the name of a family of proteins derived from the connective tissue of animals (mostly).
Sugar describes a family of over 2.6 million known sugars; Gelatine describes family of proteins. Some of these are very effective at fining, some have no fining ability, similarly some sugars are fermentable some aren't.

My belief is that the best fining is Isinglass, specifically manufactured to fine beer.
Some forms of Bovine Gelatine (like those sold at HBS's and supermarkets) are reasonably effective but by way of comparison the standard HBS fining usage recommendation is 5g/25 L, Isinglass is 0.2-1g/25 L, so the manufactures believe that Isinglass is 5-25 time more effective.
When it comes to supermarket gelatine my contention is that you have no idea how effective it is going to be, if it happens to be made from pig skin, it won't work at all, if it's made from cow hoofs, it might be as effective as HBS fining, it will never be as effective as Isinglass. Isinglass is the only gelatine that works on Chill Haze, so it can be used to improve the cold conditioning/lagering speed of beer.

Home brew shop finings cost about a dollar, Isinglass less than fifty cents per batch, even if supermarket gelatine was free I wouldn't use it simply because I won't risk a beer with 4-5 hours work and tens of dollars worth if ingredients to save small change.

MHB

 

[Phoney]

Good post MHB, have added some isinglass to my shopping list. Will give that a go :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

aarrghh no photo today as the batteries just karked it so will post tomorrow. So far they are both clearing out nicely and are about neck and neck.
I'll be doing a US-05 brew on Friday, so that's a good point re the strain of yeast.

Also I'll get some Isinglass again and store the bugger properly this time so it doesn't end up smelling like mullet guts. Isinglass definitely worked great in kegs and seemed to remove chill haze as well in the ones I did without Polyclar. So three way test next time for sure, the current one is more of a prelim. investigation. And yes I've always used Mckenzies this is the first lot of Wards so, like MHB says, who knows where they source it :icon_cheers:

 

[Batz]

who knows where they source it :icon_cheers:

From the boiled bones, skins and tendons of animals, if you want to go back that far.


Enjoying the thread Bribie, nice to see a real comparison, good stuff :icon_cheers:

Batz

 

[Nick JD]

When it comes to supermarket gelatine my contention is that you have no idea how effective it is going to be...

Yeah I do. Wards Gelatine from Coles works perfectly.

 

[manticle]

Bit the bullet and just ordered finings AND Isinglass from GG. Will do my own testing, similar to Bribie but may even compare ward's, Mckenzies and Davis as well. Will compare with control sample (containing no finings) at room temp and a batch of each at CC temps.

 

[thesunsettree]

I'm the opposite. Polyclar - Filter - Keg - Read a news paper through your beer

i agree, filtering is so friggin easy its not even close to funny. only the initail outlay for the budget concsious could possibly come into play otherwise filter if you can, absolute piece of piss and beers as clear as water (so to speak :icon_cheers: )

matt

 

[megs80]

Also, agar is essentially gelatin as well, derived from seaweed, rather than animal byproducts, so would presumably create a similar result, but be vegetarian friendly Although if you use the same agar that you're using to slant yeast, then it might have nutrients mixed in, which might confuse the issue.

Agar may not work as it sets at a lot higher temp than gelatin. Though Ive never used it in beer, Ive made gels which have started to set at over 30 degrees. My guess is that it wouldnt mix properly before it drop out.

Ill be keen to see how the results from this tread turn out.

 

[gregs]

I'm the opposite. Polyclar - Filter - Keg - Read a news paper through your beer

Did you use this technique with the beer in your awful signature, kid photo because isnt that clear! The kid would obviously be a champ Im sure but on AHB its an awful photo. :icon_vomit:

 

[yardy]

all good points i'm sure, but who ever said beer had to be clear ?

i can "read the paper" through mine via koppafloc and gelatine btw.

 

[manticle]

Yeast in suspension affects flavour too so fining has more of a point than just making beer look pretty or be used as a reading device.

I have no doubt you know this so I feel slightly stupid saying it but the point should be made.

 

[yardy]

Yeast in suspension affects flavour too so fining has more of a point than just making beer look pretty or be used as a reading device.

I have no doubt you know this so I feel slightly stupid saying it but the point should be made.

and you've alerted Coopers i hope.

 

[fasty73]

Gelatine has no finning ability, well thats just NOT fine....get it finnings..fine..get it...oh why do I bother?!

 

[DUANNE]

oh why do I bother?!

good question

 

[manticle]

and you've alerted Coopers i hope.

Just saying it has an impact on flavour - for better or worse that's up to the individual and how they enjoy their beer.

For the record I prefer my coopers unrolled and to leave the sediment behind in my bottled beer.

My point is just that it's more than cosmetics, not that one or the other is better or that all beer should be clear.

 

[Rodolphe01]

Probably been covered, but i'd be keen to see the side by side chilled for a few days, when i've used gelatine i've always crash chilled, and i have been left with a cloudy amber jelly on the bottom of the fermenter. I assume that is the crap dropped out of suspension by the gelatine.

Perhaps let it sit at ambient for whatever time to see how it clears.... then bung them both in fridge to see what difference that makes.

 

[gregs]

Anyhow looking forward to some pics.

 

[fasty73]

good question

I think it's because it's fun, just like HB is meant to be, this site should have some fun in it aswell.