Gelatine Has No Fining Ability

[Bribie G]

Not picking a personal fight with anybody on AHB

In a recent post on another thread an opinion was expressed that gelatine has no fining ability, backed up by a link to a site that examined beer clearing methods.
However I'm sure that you would agree that gathering and demostrating primary evidence, in this case, is almost trivial and would consist of just trying the stuff out, and then seeing how the mop flops, how the cow sits in the cabbage patch, how the cookie crumbles or whatever cliche turns you on.

Yorkshire bitter, a batch of gelatine (Ward's brand from supermarket, rounded tsp in Pyrex jug with around 80 ml of kettle water) prepared as normal and most tipped into keg, but a small appropriate amount reserved for a 1.25L PET which will take some of the excess beer from secondary, the other 1.25L PET to be filled with pure beer out of secondary, no gelatine.





It begins.

If at the end of the day the gelatine is no F use then I'm more than happy - toss it in the bin. I'm pretty sure that the usage here is quite typical of what most home brewers would do, so lets see what days 2 3 4 5 come up with, will post

 

[DUANNE]

as usual an interesting experiment bribie. my thoughts are as a non gelatine user that as far as my understanding goes the gelatine will just speed up a process that time will do any way. so it will be good to see wich beer clears quicker, wich beer carbs quicker and wich if any looks clearer in a months time.would love to know if i really am mising something that could improve my beer in the long run.

 

[RdeVjun]

A practical and worthwhile experiment IMO, perhaps of far more value than a 10 page thread of armchair hypothesising, nitpicking, contextual errors and if we're really lucky, the inevitable shitfight... (just not half as much fun... ) So, great stuff BribieG!

It is probably immaterial, but what yeast?

I promised once to try agar as an alternate fining agent, that was about three months ago but I haven't fined with gelatine or agar since! That's mainly because I don't really care a great deal about clarity, particularly in house ales as I presume that one is, and I just take what I get. I'm probably getting a bit lazy as well. I realise that's just my own preference and circumstances, obviously everyone is different. :icon_cheers:

 

[barls]

heres the big one that effects gelatine and thats the temp that they are at. from memory it works better when its colder.

 

[manticle]

Considering doing something like this myself bribie. Good idea but you need a control sample as well.

Do one with davis/ward whatever, one without finings and one with HBS type finings. Of these split again into two batches - one room temp and one cold conditioned.

I realise that's potentially a bit of beer to waste on tests but smaller bottles would work just as well.

 

[rendo]

FIGHT....FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!

I've tagged this topic, will be watching with interest

rendo

A practical and worthwhile experiment IMO, perhaps of far more value than a 10 page thread of armchair hypothesising, nitpicking, contextual errors and if we're really lucky, the inevitable shitfight... (just not half as much fun... ) So, great stuff BribieG!

 

[mwd]

as usual an interesting experiment bribie. my thoughts are as a non gelatine user that as far as my understanding goes the gelatine will just speed up a process that time will do any way.

+1 I think gelatine speeds up the whole clearing process into a few days instead of a week or so without.

Only problem I have seen with gelatine is the fluffy bottoms in the bottle which are very easy to disturb when pouring.

Interested to see the outcome of the controlled experiment. Don't know about the temperature thing as I have to condition all my beers at about 28C normal room temp here. They only go in the fridge at least 24hrs before drinking. No chance of lagering without buying another fridge and temperature control.

 

[Bribie G]

RdeV it's 1469
Barls it's at ambient which is probably normal for most home brewers.

Won't be responding further to this thread except to post a pic per day.
signing out :icon_cheers:

edit spelinnn

 

[K&K]

testing rather than hypothesizing? that's crazy and won't go down well as a conversational topic after a few brews....

Actually very interested in the outcome.

 

[joecast]

+1 I think gelatine speeds up the whole clearing process into a few days instead of a week or so without.

Only problem I have seen with gelatine is the fluffy bottoms in the bottle which are very easy to disturb when pouring.

Thats the biggest difference I've noticed too. Any keg fined with gelatin needs to remain as still as possible or that nasty fluffy sediment is right in the glass.
Anyway, great work bribieg. Will be interested in the results.
Joe

 

[felten]

Isn't 1469 highly flocculant though? It might be better to test with a low floccer, like a kolsch maybe

 

[DUANNE]

Isn't 1469 highly flocculant though? It might be better to test with a low floccer, like a kolsch maybe

thought the same thing myself. maybe us 05 wich can hang around like a pita and most brewers use at one time or another? ive also found with pommy yeast in general that they still attenuate well after dropping clear. still want to see the results though, hanging on with baited breath.

 

[Phoney]

I gelatin & polyclar every beer I brew (other than wheat beers & stouts)

Using Davis brand Gelatin, using the exact same method every time, CC for the same period of time etc. I recently brewed two APA's using 1056 and both have come out as cloudy as CPA. My last 10 brews in a row I have been able to see through clear as daylight.

I've come to a conclusion that beer clarity has far more to do with yeast rather than use or non use of gelatin.

But with the beers which are clear I never get chill haze anymore therefore im not giving up on using Polyclar.

 

[rotten]

Test away then brewers, Bribie has chosen his test. I However will back his inevitable results that it makes beer clearer & quicker from personal experience (at cooled temp). I have a brew catalogue of 8 brews used with gelatine, and 5 remaining pre-gelatine. The difference is unequivocal. I can see things through my beer that no man has seen before, clarity.
Cheers

 

[brett mccluskey]

Test away then brewers, Bribie has chosen his test. I However will back his inevitable results that it makes beer clearer & quicker from personal experience (at cooled temp). I have a brew catalogue of 8 brews used with gelatine, and 5 remaining pre-gelatine. The difference is unequivocal. I can see things through my beer that no man has seen before, clarity.
Cheers

haven't used a post boil fining agent for many,many years as my beer clears quite well with a settling period/cold storage,so this is only a quote and not my personal opinion .Zymurgy,Vol8,No 5,P48."Gelatin: One of the original homebrew clarifiers,gelatin is a positively charged protein derived from pork or beef skin and bones.While results are not overwhelmingly successful when used alone.gelatin reduces polyphenolic compounds(astringent or bitter husk and hop tannins)by attracting these negatively charged compounds,along with yeast cells,and drawing them to the bottom of the bottle or fermenter.To remove positively charged haze- causing proteins.commercial brewers and vintners often use gelatin in conjunction with negatively charged silicon dioxide.Together they form a dense coagulum resulting in rapid clarification.Optimum use of gelatin is a 1.5% solution(1.5g in 98.5ml of water)It's not uncommon in the brewing industry for some clarifiers to be used in conjunction with others.
For instance,Bentonite can be used 48 hours prior to gelatin fining to reduce haze-causing proteins." Hope this helps the discussion :icon_cheers:

 

[Steve]

I However will back his inevitable results that it makes beer clearer & quicker from personal experience (at cooled temp).
Cheers

Me too....I trialled a brand new filter from a bloke here in Canberra last year with the idea of buying it. Did one keg with filter the other with gelatine. I didnt buy the filter.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Bizier]

I am sorry if I am hijacking your thread Bribie, good experiment... but I can't see why everyone gelatines in their final vessel rather than in their fermentation vessel prior to racking... I just leave it clear up for a tic, combined with a CC then rack clean beer over to either keg, or bulk prime vessel.

 

[Fourstar]

Isn't 1469 highly flocculant though? It might be better to test with a low floccer, like a kolsch maybe

As an example from experience merely days ago, can tell you that 3068 weihenstephan yeast drops bright after around 4 weeks undisturbed in the fridge.

SWMBO poured me one the other day and by appearance, i thought it was my kentucky common. diamond bright and not a tough of haze.

I also find as an interesting point that my filtered beers tend to display a mild haze typically throughout the life of its cycle in the keg. Even with appropriate polyclar addition. very very mild, but not diamond bright.

 

[MarkBastard]

Me too....I trialled a brand new filter from a bloke here in Canberra last year with the idea of buying it. Did one keg with filter the other with gelatine. I didnt buy the filter.
Cheers
Steve

I'm the opposite. Polyclar - Filter - Keg - Read a news paper through your beer

 

[Thirsty Boy]

As an example from experience merely days ago, can tell you that 3068 weihenstephan yeast drops bright after around 4 weeks undisturbed in the fridge.

SWMBO poured me one the other day and by appearance, i thought it was my kentucky common. diamond bright and not a tough of haze.

I also find as an interesting point that my filtered beers tend to display a mild haze typically throughout the life of its cycle in the keg. Even with appropriate polyclar addition. very very mild, but not diamond bright.

Use a little more polyclar and it will most likely go away. Also a sign that you are letting in a bit more oxygen than you might ideally. The same haze will most likely be there in the majority of your non filtered beers too... its just that they aren't bright enough so that you notice it.