Gelatine Has No Fining Ability

[hoohaaman]

- 1. i hope you never change it mark, its a pisser of a photo .

matt

Every mother think their kid looks good.

+1 HOPPINMAD

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Oh, and I've noticed that cider tastes better separated from the yeast. I'm almost tempted to figure out a force carving method to improve my cider.

I've been known to filter & keg a cider... But mostly just use finings in the kegs. I like the flavor contributed to the cider by aging "on lees" but like you, don't like it all that much when actual yeast sediment makes it into the glass.

I have (and one day will get around to using) some of those sediment remover devices, where you store your bottles upside down and the yeast falls into a little chamber that you can then remove... The plan is to make methode traditional type ciders, aged on lees, then riddled to get every last bit of yeast up into the sediment remover. Get the sediment remover off as a replacement for disgorgement, add some dosage and re-cap/cork. No need for the gear required for neck freezing.

 

[Bribie G]

Finally got out



Well, cleared out nicely and no discernable difference (finings on the left, no finings on the right).
So that's test #1 out of the way. I'll do the same with the APA I'm brewing today, and that's going to be on US-05 so I'll see what gelatine does to a poorly floccing yeast. I'll keep the current bottles for a couple more weeks and see if the gelatine one gets a fluffy bum compared to the other.

 

[QldKev]

Finally got out


Well, cleared out nicely and no discernable difference (finings on the left, no finings on the right).
So that's test #1 out of the way. I'll do the same with the APA I'm brewing today, and that's going to be on US-05 so I'll see what gelatine does to a poorly floccing yeast. I'll keep the current bottles for a couple more weeks and see if the gelatine one gets a fluffy bum compared to the other.

Is it me, or does the one on the right actually have less haze?

QldKev

 

[Bribie G]

I was sort of thinking that when I saw the photo, just took them out of my 'comp cupboard' where I'm storing them and yes the non-fined one is a tiny tad clearer :blink:

 

[Bribie G]

After another 3 days the non-fined is clear as a bell, the fined is just slightly slightly hazy. Bloody hell :blink:

Arr Mr Frodo, well there's a turn up for the books and no mistake, if this were a batch of my old Gaffer's home brew I reckon he'd be fair worritin' <_<

I'm pitching an APA with a good dose of US-05 in about half an hour from now, so I'll bump this in a couple of weeks. I'll have enough left over after kegging to do a much more extensive test, I'll grab some isinglass and an airtight jar and gel drying sachet while I'm at it as I had good results with the last lot before it turned to mullet gut. :icon_cheers:

 

[Lecterfan]

Keep it up Bribie, this is awesome to keep track of (and not have to actually particpiate in haha). :icon_cheers:

 

[Paul H]

After another 3 days the non-fined is clear as a bell, the fined is just slightly slightly hazy. Bloody hell :blink:

Arr Mr Frodo, well there's a turn up for the books and no mistake, if this were a batch of my old Gaffer's home brew I reckon he'd be fair worritin' <_<

I'm pitching an APA with a good dose of US-05 in about half an hour from now, so I'll bump this in a couple of weeks. I'll have enough left over after kegging to do a much more extensive test, I'll grab some isinglass and an airtight jar and gel drying sachet while I'm at it as I had good results with the last lot before it turned to mullet gut. :icon_cheers:

Was there any discussion at the ANHC about finings or commercial products used?

:icon_cheers:

Paul

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Another great experiment Bribie :beerbang:

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

heres the big one that effects gelatine and thats the temp that they are at. from memory it works better when its colder.

I went through reading this thread and thought the exact thing, and to my surprise not alot has been said about the temperature. From reading and following advice given on AHB articles, finings are added to cold primary or cold secondary and left in while cold conditioning.

Kind of off-topic but I recently went on holidays and I left an Amber Ale cold condition in the fermenter for a total of 3.5 weeks. Usually no more than 7-10days clearing and cold conditioning. I checked it and it was VERY clear and that was without finings. I've read time+cc'ing is the easiest way to clear a beer and it has proved it to me! :icon_cheers:

 

[WarmBeer]

Was there any discussion at the ANHC about finings or commercial products used?

:icon_cheers:

Paul

Thirsty Boy took us through a session based on results from some personal experimentation with various fining rates (0 - 100ppm finings).

For his particular experiment, the optimum fining rate was between the 20ppm and the 60ppm (he unfortunately dropped the 40ppm sample during the experiment), but this demonstrated there is not a linear relationship between finings and clarity.

His biggest caveat was that there is no clear cut "best rate of finings", as it is dependant on too many factors: gravity, grist composition, filter bed, moon phase, etc.

You need to build a best guesstimate for a particular beer on a particular system. YMMV.

 

[Bribie G]

Inspired by another thread that's popped up, the results for the two bottles are that they are now both crystal clear. I pitched a US-05 brew yesterday and will repeat the exercise. Also I used Wards Gelatine which I hadn't done before, I'll pick up some McKenzies and see what happens as well - maybe McKenzies is made from the correct hooves or snouts or something :icon_drool2:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I went through reading this thread and thought the exact thing, and to my surprise not alot has been said about the temperature. From reading and following advice given on AHB articles, finings are added to cold primary or cold secondary and left in while cold conditioning.

Kind of off-topic but I recently went on holidays and I left an Amber Ale cold condition in the fermenter for a total of 3.5 weeks. Usually no more than 7-10days clearing and cold conditioning. I checked it and it was VERY clear and that was without finings. I've read time+cc'ing is the easiest way to clear a beer and it has proved it to me! :icon_cheers:

very common misconception... temperature does not really matter to finings and in fact they will drop yeast faster in room temperature wort than in 4C wort.

You do need your beer cold for Isinglass to have any effect on Chill Haze.

But given that no one is claiming that gelatin can fine out chill haze, and that temperature doesn't effect the performance of finings on the stuff that gelatin might be able to help remove, yeast. Then cold makes no essentially no difference, or in fact might make it slower.

Stokes Law - and wort is at its densest at 4C

 

[Silo Ted]

the results for the two bottles are that they are now both crystal clear.

Can't improve on crystal clear. :icon_cheers: So round one of these tests so far indicate that in the conditions and recipe you chose, the finings did nothing of benefit.

My money's on similar results with the S05, given enough time in the bottle.

Can you report on the difference in amount, and also the compaction, of sediment in the bottle?

 

[winkle]

(snip)
Can you report on the difference in amount, and also the compaction, of sediment in the bottle?

Hmmm, that is where I'd expect any difference to occur.
Bribie?

 

[felten]

Yah, fluffy bottoms suck.

 

[Bribie G]

After years of warning about fluffy bottoms, the sediment in both bottles is hiding in the little wells at the bottom of the PETs and sticking like shit to a blanket. Hey Winkle I'll send the fined bottle up to the case swap for you to have for your very own :wub: , Florian is collecting my case on the way through.

I'll change my entry to Yorkshire Red, as the Helles didn't happen ( waiting for my RO system before I did any more lagers)

On topic I reckon that Wards didn't do a bloody thing, will definitely try a four way test next time with the US-05

NO finings
Wards
McKenzies
Brigalow sachet.

Edit, five ways if I can get some isinglass.

:icon_cheers:

 

[MHB]

Not to rain on the parade, but unfortunately the testing you are doing don't mean diddley squat. Even if one of the supermarket finings worked brilliantly how can you know that the next packet you buy will be the same stuff or will be anywhere near as effective?

I strongly suspect that the "makers" mentioned just buy the stuff from other manufacturer. Looks like Wards is owned by McKenzies anyway so they are probably the same; neither are listed as gelatine makers (yes there is an industry body - GMAP).

There are products made to do the job properly, if someone suggested that supermarket baker's yeast will ferment sugar so we should all use it to make beer not likely. But it's cheap so this pointless discussion will go on and on and...

MHB

 

[Nick JD]

very common misconception... temperature does not really matter to finings and in fact they will drop yeast faster in room temperature wort than in 4C wort.

Nailed ... on the head.

I use Wards Gelatine at fermenting temperatures (10-18C lagers and ales) and the difference on the same recipe (using vs not using) is huge. So much so I've had to add more yeast to get the bottles carbonated up and have stopped using gelatine with a couple of high flocculent yeasts.

YMMV, and I strongly suggest everyone buy MHB's products so he can afford his transgender operation .

 

[MHB]

I come to AHB to discuss beer and brewing, yes I'm a retailer, but you go and find one instance of me engaging in marketing outside a retail thread in the 5 years I have been a member. In spite of trying to offer helpful advice and on occasion playing the devil's advocate, which let's face it this place needs occasionally.

Even in the face of provocation from demonstrably ignorant foul mouthed pratts, I'm going to resist the temptation of resorting to personal abuse, shame we can't have a discussion without some people taking it personally and trying (however badly) to play the man not the ball.

Grow up!

MHB