Fully Automated Brewing System Design

[yardy]

I'll make you a serious deal... I'm pretty sure I'll be in Melbourne for the ANHC.... if you have it all cut and ready, and can get access to a TIG, I'll fizz it together for you for nicks

Burrito,

unchange your mind and take the deal.

 

[bigfridge]

:lol: Let's not start taking it all personally now, B1! Ok, I'll make you a serious deal... I'm pretty sure I'll be in Melbourne for the ANHC.... if you have it all cut and ready, and can get access to a TIG, I'll fizz it together for you for nicks? We'll call it my apology to you for being such a negative smartass in your thread and call it quits?

Scho, isn't the dude in Batemans Bay and not Melbourne ?

Maybe we can send Fatz to help him.

<_<

 

[schooey]

My bad...

I dunno why I thought he was in Melbourne?? You're not originally from Melbourne are you, B1? I get this feeling you're mexican somehow...

 

[bigfridge]

Do you have a link to your automated brewery please katzke? I dont think I have seen it yet.

Bandaid, that is a cheap shot on someone that has tried to help you. It is not an easy task to design and build a control system, let alone a full brewery.

I have spent 5 years developing mine. I can't tell you much about it as it contains a lot of proprietary software that was the result of hudnreds of hours of programming and optimisation. But here is a photo of a prototype.

 

[Bandito]

So your planning on producing and selling them? You gota be able to elaborate on it a bit more than that! What chip are you using? And please dont say its a basic stamp. Better at least be a PIC18F series if not a full blown DSP. Have you checked out Labview? It can code the programming itsself, then compile the code and upload it to the chip to make an embedded system (I think anyway, I know it can create an exe file for pc driven systems that dont need labview to run). As long as the process isnt straightforward and has some multitasking in it the code it produces is 1/4 decent. It sounds wierd, but the more complex the process, the simpler the code labview produces, which helps when debugging is required. Thats what I have been told anyway.

I recieved 12 x usb to com port cables last week, and ordered another 5 pic controlled relay boards to go with the two on thier way. With analogue to digital, digital to analogue converters, digital out and digital inputs, 20MHz 8 bit processor, eprom and ram all on the one chip, there's not much it cant do.

Opensource FTW.

Im looking at how to open and close these butterflys atm.

I have found these 8000 Newton linear actuators: http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Linear-Actuator-...216358585242596

They say they have a load capacity of 8000 Newton, which is 816Kg. The butterflys require 5812 Pounds per inch of torque to open and close, which is equivalent to 657 Newton meters. So the length of lever I need is 657/8000=0.082m (8.2cm). The stroke length of that actuator is 40cm. So I figure that should be sufficient to turn the seat 90 degrees even with a longer lever. Wierd thing is that it says not to apply a safety factor to the required torque? I suppose its already been allowed for. At these forces, I doubt the grist weight/viscosity will have too much effect, but will be way over the required forces anyway (unless my calcs are out by a factor of 10).

Also decided on weldneck flanges - they seem to lack the small indentation that could harbour grist.

 

[Bandito]

I could see one of these linear actuators as part of an automated biab bag hoister. With a 2:1 lever to get more height.

Sure are a heap of them to choose from though: http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_kw=Linear&_kw=Actuator

 

[bigfridge]

So your planning on producing and selling them? You gota be able to elaborate on it a bit more than that! What chip are you using? And please dont say its a basic stamp. Better at least be a PIC18F series if not a full blown DSP. Have you checked out Labview?

No, I don't sell them - well not to the AHB market. We design and build commercial breweries.

Labview - yes I know it ...... a bit of a toy used by 'Engineers and Scientists' that can't program an embedded device. I use a system designed for embedded electronic controls in oem machines. This way you don't have to rely on Windoze to run your system. As you can see from my pic this unit is self contained.

Im looking at how to open and close these butterflys atm.

How are you going to rig your false bottom to allo wthe valve to open and dump the spent grain or trub ? I can't see how the valve could open ?

 

[Bandito]

Now would be a good time to admit that the cow ipod thing I posted was a troll directed at you. You didnt bite, which is a shame. Its actually a herd tracker being developed by the CSIRO, I just posted it because its the funniest pic I have ever seen.

Care to fess up to any of yours?

 

[yardy]

Now would be a good time to admit that the cow ipod thing I posted was a troll directed at you. You didnt bite, which is a shame. Its actually a herd tracker being developed by the CSIRO, I just posted it because its the funniest pic I have ever seen.

Care to fess up to any of yours?

:lol:

 

[zagadka]

I have spent 5 years developing mine.*snip*

Off topic:
In the pic, did that 1/2 BSP to 1/4 compression fitting come with that probe or did you buy it separate? I'm looking for a similar fitting...

I recieved 12 x usb to com port cables last week, and ordered another 5 pic controlled relay boards to go with the two on thier way. With analogue to digital, digital to analogue converters, digital out and digital inputs, 20MHz 8 bit processor, eprom and ram all on the one chip, there's not much it cant do.

Which relay boards are you using, what pic is on them, where did they come from etc - more details?

Wouldn't you custom cook something rather than running n of these boards with n USB to RS232 converters - or is there some different thinking behind your decision?

For something pre-built, have you looked at a UBW or UBW32 for example? Lots of IO, USB, talk to it via virtual com port and simple commands...

 

[Bandito]

Which relay boards are you using, what pic is on them, where did they come from etc - more details?

Wouldn't you custom cook something rather than running n of these boards with n USB to RS232 converters - or is there some different thinking behind your decision?

For something pre-built, have you looked at a UBW or UBW32 for example? Lots of IO, USB, talk to it via virtual com port and simple commands...

Ordered from http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-RS485-40-Channel-R...=item41517bdcdd
But I didnt use the online ordering system, as the postage came out at $47,000. So sent him an email at [email protected] and he sent a paypal payment request. "The shipping/Handing is $13.99 + 4 x $7.99 = $45.95 for 5 x FR88 boards" (all US$) The aussie dollar is quite high atm, so I need to take advantage of it while I can.

Yea, I could have printed up some custom home made boards with the press'n peel circuit board transfers I have, but its just easier and faster this way. They come with a PIC16F series. Also compatable with 18F versions that have a usb bus hardwired in them. The 16F should do though, and have a operating higher temp range more suited to a brewery, so will probably stick with them. The cables were like $7 each, so its not as if its a huge outlay. I ordered more than I need - like I am trying to do with everything, both for spares and to use in future projects. Its more cost effective to order more the first time than to order a second time and pay the extra postage.

I have not looked at UBW, I have experience in PIC's, but will look the UBW's up. Thanks.

 

[schooey]

Off topic:
In the pic, did that 1/2 BSP to 1/4 compression fitting come with that probe or did you buy it separate? I'm looking for a similar fitting...

Right here, dude... Set you back about $20 a pop

 

[Bandito]

Ordered from http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-RS485-40-Channel-R...=item41517bdcdd
But I didnt use the online ordering system, as the postage came out at $47,000. So sent him an email at [email protected] and he sent a paypal payment request. "The shipping/Handing is $13.99 + 4 x $7.99 = $45.95 for 5 x FR88 boards" (all US$) The aussie dollar is quite high atm, so I need to take advantage of it while I can.

Woops, got the link wrong, thats the other relay boards. This is the right link for the ones with the PIC16F86: http://fcelectronics.ecrater.com/p/3361529...y-board-8-input

Cost is the above postage cost plus US$52.99 each.

 

[Scruffy]

FPGA.

 

[Bandito]

For something pre-built, have you looked at a UBW or UBW32 for example? Lots of IO, USB, talk to it via virtual com port and simple commands...

Drooling over the 32bit PIC! I didnt think one existed.
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_i...roducts_id=8971

The UBW boards are also better than the ones I got (same basic thing though) as they have an 18F chip with more A/D converters and are cheaper.
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_i...roducts_id=8265

 

[bigfridge]

Off topic:
In the pic, did that 1/2 BSP to 1/4 compression fitting come with that probe or did you buy it separate? I'm looking for a similar fitting...

Schooey has posted a good local site, but I got them with the NTC probe from Embedded Control Concepts in the USA.

 

[zagadka]

Right here, dude... Set you back about $20 a pop

Thanks mate that'll save me a lot of time looking. Do they talk to the public or is it businesses only?

Drooling over the 32bit PIC!
*SNIP*

Yeah, the UBW is some nice kit. I've got one at home, but ended up custom cooking a 16f88 based board instead for that particular project. Looking forward to my next project with an 18f2550, USB based relay control.


Have you looked at how you're going to manage all these relay boards? It's starting to get crowded =)

EDIT:
Thanks also bigfridge. I will check them out.

 

[schooey]

Thanks mate that'll save me a lot of time looking. Do they talk to the public or is it businesses only?

Yep. That's where I got mine from. If you did have an ABN and went to all the fuss of opening an account with them, you might get them for half the price or something... T&S Valves at Ingleburn also sell them if that is closer...

 

[Bandito]

Yeah, the UBW is some nice kit. I've got one at home, but ended up custom cooking a 16f88 based board instead for that particular project. Looking forward to my next project with an 18f2550, USB based relay control.

Have you looked at how you're going to manage all these relay boards? It's starting to get crowded =)

Today I recieved the 5 x 8 relay boards from bolivia, and the first two of the FP88 PIC ones from canada today (the other 5 were sent today too). They are quite large. When I first realised how much space they would take I was trying to figure out a plug'n'play type thing - like computer cards. But perhaps instead of a stationary metal cabinet where eveything is mounted in it, a series of metal leafs (sort of like a book)? Perhaps not, I do want everything to be hardwired, and moving/twisting wires is never good, so will probably just need to make the cabinet big enough to hold everything, but thin enough that it doesnt take up too much space.

Also recieved the 300mm false bottom, and the plate chiller, and the 3d glasses. But it seems my professional graphics quadro video card doesnt support it. A new geforce card is too expensive, so will look for a second hand one - so as to not hold up the build.

The false bottom needs about 5mm cut off around the circumference (1cm off the diameter). How should I cut it? A fine toothed flexible blade hacksaw?

The chiller has very large barbs - going to have to figure out an adapter to fit the 1/4" ID silicon.

Also got a quote for those 8000 Newton linear actuators. US$318 including postage for three (two to use and one spare. Think I'll take em.

At the rate these parts are arriving, it should be finnished in time for ANHC. Hmmm, I wonder, should I try to get a stall? It would fit into the radical brewing theme. Could really use a sponsor though

Is ANHC like a normal expo with stalls? I went to an automation expo at the exhibition centre about 2002. Crazy ass robots!


Just found the system wars pictures on the AHNC site! Could automation be the fourth kind!?! Or is it already?

 

[LethalCorpse]

Today I recieved the 5 x 8 relay boards from bolivia, and the first two of the FP88 PIC ones from canada today (the other 5 were sent today too). They are quite large. When I first realised how much space they would take I was trying to figure out a plug'n'play type thing - like computer cards. But perhaps instead of a stationary metal cabinet where eveything is mounted in it, a series of metal leafs (sort of like a book)? Perhaps not, I do want everything to be hardwired, and moving/twisting wires is never good, so will probably just need to make the cabinet big enough to hold everything, but thin enough that it doesnt take up too much space.

Why don't you ask the electrician who's going to be wiring it for you?