Fully Automated Brewing System Design

[yardy]

are you really considering building this in a rented property ?

 

[Bandito]

Yea! Dont worry, it will have plenty of safeguargs. Plenty of temperature sensors placed around the brewery to sense the ambiant temperatures to cut off power when an anomaly is detected. Smoke alarm hooked up to a fire extinguisher (just thought of that this week - just hope I dont burn the toast!). And the whole thing sitting over a stainless bung that drains into the floor drain. Also a polished stainless back and sides to reflect away from the walls and allow hosing down without getting a drop on the walls. And yes, still in the laundry

 

[Gout]

Sounds like for the cost of this little gem, you could have bought a house

 

[Bandito]

Not yet, but then again its not finnished. I would prefer a fully automated brewery to a house anyway. I'm planning on buying a strip club before a house too! Thats the dream, fully automated brewery in a strip club :icon_drunk: :icon_drool2:

I doubt I will ever run it when not at home, so there is an extra safeguard. Will take lots of brews to trust it completely, and by then it'll be in a shed so the damage wont be so bad.

Actually, I do have a small shed out the back. And the owner would be infinity times more likely to install a 3 phase out there given what I am doing. Could be a go.

Edit: But would also need water plumbed in and a drain into the sewridge line.

 

[bigfridge]

I'm planning on buying a strip club before a house too! Thats the dream, fully automated brewery in a strip club :icon_drunk: :icon_drool2:

:lol:

Very funny ...

I get it now - this whole thread has been one enormous joke ...

 

[Bandito]

Yea, I spend thousands importing pinch and butterfly valves, hundreds of hours developing the pfd and modeling the brewery all in preparation for next aprils fools day! Probably could fool a few, heres a rendered pic of the kitchen of my last rental house: (I modeled it in 3d including the kitchen sink which was modeled in solidworks) and some people did think it was an actual photo.

I modeled the whole house in 3d, not all to the level of the kitchen though. When I left I broke my lease half way through the 4th 12 month lease, so I made a floor plan of the house and the agent posted it on realestate.com.au and now, there is a floorplan option for rental properties (so its possible I started that trend). Sadly, I lost the model when I accidently wiped my external harddrive a year ago. Took 40 hours to model the sink, and over a hundred for the house.

 

[yardy]

Thats the dream, fully automated brewery in a strip club

not so much a strip club, maybe a topless bar when you blow the ******* roof off.. :icon_cheers:

good luck with that one cobber

 

[goomboogo]

Yea! Dont worry, it will have plenty of safeguargs. Plenty of temperature sensors placed around the brewery to sense the ambiant temperatures to cut off power when an anomaly is detected. Smoke alarm hooked up to a fire extinguisher (just thought of that this week - just hope I dont burn the toast!). And the whole thing sitting over a stainless bung that drains into the floor drain. Also a polished stainless back and sides to reflect away from the walls and allow hosing down without getting a drop on the walls. And yes, still in the laundry

I could be wrong but I think Yardy was thinking about the having to shift the thing if the lease is not renewed. That and the general craziness of doing something like this in somebody else's house.

 

[Lilo]

I have to print this thread and make a book out of it.... Add a few cartoon style picies of roofs blowing off etc...

It'll sell like hotcakes.......

Priceless

 

[Bandito]

not so much a strip club, maybe a topless bar when you blow the ******* roof off.. :icon_cheers:

good luck with that one cobber

Like the new avatar Yardy!

The only explosive thing in the brewery is the grain dust, and it was pointed out to me early (by bigfridge and one other) that that the grain dust could result in 'raging lactic fermentations' and my answer to that is to filter the dust from the air and protect the dust from sparks and motors. So given that I did work experience at an explosive factory, I should know how to prevent grain dust explosions and other explosions for that matter. Did have to sit through training videos on pipa alpha and some others too.

Are there any other potential explosive issues I am overlooking? As far as I can see, the main hazard is prolonged current draw through the mains power circuit that could heat up the wires in the walls and cause a fire that way - but anyone that uses electricity to boil would have that problem, no?

I could be wrong but I think Yardy was thinking about the having to shift the thing if the lease is not renewed. That and the general craziness of doing something like this in somebody else's house.

Oh yea! almost forgot to design it to be able to fit through a door. Although I do respect the place as if it were someone elses - and it is. Technically, it is mine for the term of the lease. The owner has insurance - I should probably take some out too, just to make sure. But with me watching over it like a hawke, and you guys also watching over it over the live streaing cam I doubt much could go horribly wrong.

I have to print this thread and make a book out of it.... Add a few cartoon style picies of roofs blowing off etc...

It'll sell like hotcakes.......

Priceless

What does this button do?

 

[MVZOOM]

I admire your ability to 3D render and model, however do not think you have the in-depth skill - through the variety of desciplines required - to pull this off. Safety for yourself, others around you, the potential property damage and suchlike would be my primary concern. Secondary to this, I don't think you have a full grasp on the actual brewing process, which would give you the ability to think laterally about the challenges you face; you have not seen the issues yet, so would not know how to mitigate them.

You obviously have an enquiring and challenging mind, it's just a shame that IMHO you won't meet your goal with this one.

Cheers - Mike

 

[ArnieW]

Bandito, you will be disappointed if your power circuit is only 4800W for a 100litre boil. With 2400W, 20-25 litres is about the max volume. I currently do 45 litre boils with 3600W and I'd like a bit more for ramping up to boil. You'd need 7200W minimum to achieve your goal.

I thought if you were building a fully automated rig, you could run it 24/7? If that is the case, why not scale it down and really make it portable?

 

[Bandito]

Thanks for the info Arnie, yea I now realise I should be a bit more realistic. As I was going through the thread on the weekend I saw a reply saying he did 30L boils with 2400W. I'll aim for 20 to 30L boils to make up 80L ferments. It will simplify the hlt, mlt, and kettle. Could use my existing 35L pot as hlt, and can go back to using standard flanges and pipe. Got a bit cought up in the bling. Damn you electricity! Will still try to get another circuit though.

Ordered some more stuff yesterday:

plate chiller
300mm False bottom
2 x 8 relay boards - will be a start to automating something, they are FR88 model which have a PIC16F84 as the brains. http://fcelectronics.ecrater.com/p/3361529...y-board-8-input . But now think it would be easier to get a pci card http://daqstuff.com/ni_components.htm
1 x automated dog food dispenser for grain dispense - this is a different type than I have seen before and looks promising.

 

[Frank]

Have you worked out how the false bottom will sit in your mash tun yet? It will need to be high enough to allow the butterfly valve to open, but also be able to move to allow spent grain to drop out. An option could be to incorporate the false bottom into the actual butterfly but that may be an expensive operation if it does not work.

 

[schooey]

About the only long bow you could draw between this little adventure of yours and Piper Alpha would be that a whole bunch of experienced people tried to give both you and Occidental some good advice and you both failed to listen and it's probably going to cost you both a lot of money to learn a lesson...speaking in relative terms. Let's just hope you have less casualties

 

[Bandito]

Yea Boston. pivoted on a horizontal axl with pointed ends that fit into countersinks half drilled into the vessel wall with tabs on the sides extending down to the disk, hopefully wont need to actually fix to the disk.

Thanks for the support schooey. :beerbang:

 

[schooey]

Ha! No worries, dude...thanks for the car crash entertainment

 

[matho]

1 x automated dog food dispenser for grain dispense - this is a different type than I have seen before and looks promising.

do you mean the one that was in 'Back to the future I'

sorry every time i think of an automatic dog food dispenser i think of that

cheer's matho

 

[beerbrewer76543]

So many negative Nancys on this forum!

 

[roger mellie]

About the only long bow you could draw between this little adventure of yours and Piper Alpha would be that a whole bunch of experienced people tried to give both you and Occidental some good advice and you both failed to listen and it's probably going to cost you both a lot of money to learn a lesson...speaking in relative terms. Let's just hope you have less casualties

Completely OT - but I dont know if anyone was giving Occidental much advice. The north sea was a pretty gung ho place back then. Mix that with cheapskate american operators, production before safety, quite a few human factors - there were a load of near misses around that time.

I worked on Saltire ,Claymore and Piper Bravo and met a couple of people who survived Piper Alpha - paid particular attention to Banditos quip that he knows about explosions because he watched the video on PA. Like thats going to help.

Im all for innovation but this thread is completely hatstand.

RM

 

[absinthe]

have you tested the circuits in the laundry? you might find you have both circuits in the room or in the wall so you could add another point. as for touching the oven an immediate death sentience thats going a little far, im sure you know how to pull a fuse and throw a breaker before touching it.

i also thought a standard circuit was 16amp not 10 that would give you 3.8Kw to play with. you might get a boil with this just make sure the kettle is really well insulated

 

[katzke]

Fun to read this thread. As I recall it started with a brewery that would brew 5 liters and fit in the space of a fridge. Now it is up to 100 liters and the size of a room.

He still has no idea what he is doing and will not listen to any advice.

I swore I would not ever post again but I guess I was drawn into it by his cohorts or those that will not read all the pages.

The only reason I read it, is it is fun to see how wild he gets in his design and assumptions.

He wanted to brew 5-liter batches because he does not drink much, now he wants to brew 100 liters and I have no idea why he made the switch. He is willing to spend 40 hours drawing a kitchen sink in a house he no longer lives in for the fun of it.

Next I expect him to claim he invented the internet. Wait someone has already claimed that!

 

[cdbrown]

OT
Ahh Piper Alpha - the reason why I have a job that pays well. If it wasn't for that and subsequent Cullen report the UK HSE wouldn't have implemented the requirement to prove a case for safety. Performing formal safety assessments for offshore installations and then writing safety cases is my bread and butter.

Back on topic
Bandito - maybe you need to have a bit of a sit down and a hard think about what you actually want from the rig, what the constraints are and try to work within that. You may actually get something up and running before long....or you can keep going the way you are and end up not building a rig.

Maybe consider fully automated BIAB? That's pretty challenging

 

[unrealeous]

In Every Element of Genius, There an Element of Madness...

 

[bum]

Fun to read this thread. As I recall it started with a brewery that would brew 5 liters and fit in the space of a fridge. Now it is up to 100 liters and the size of a room.

He still has no idea what he is doing and will not listen to any advice.

I swore I would not ever post again but I guess I was drawn into it by his cohorts or those that will not read all the pages.

The only reason I read it, is it is fun to see how wild he gets in his design and assumptions.

He wanted to brew 5-liter batches because he does not drink much, now he wants to brew 100 liters and I have no idea why he made the switch. He is willing to spend 40 hours drawing a kitchen sink in a house he no longer lives in for the fun of it.

Next I expect him to claim he invented the internet. Wait someone has already claimed that!

Talking about him like he isn't here is also especially rewarding.

 

[Bandito]

Ordered a 40 relay RS485 controller today from http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-RS485-40-Channel-R...=item41517bdcdd

That should be more than enough relays to control the pinch valves. I need to actuate them at a high voltage then switch to a lower voltage, so I need two relays per valve.


Yea, Absinthe, you are correct, the fuses are 16amp, its the lights that are only 10amp!

 

[LethalCorpse]

Yea, Absinthe, you are correct, the fuses are 16amp, its the lights that are only 10amp!

Yes, he's correct, the fuses on the power circuit are 16A. He also clearly knows nothing about the electrical safety regulations, or much more to the point, the reasons for them.

If you want a 15A or 20A outlet, they must go on their own dedicated circuit. Nothing else may be run on your oven circuit, and you would be particularly stupid to attempt to tap into the back of it for power, whether or not you had the sense to flick the breaker first.

 

[bum]

If you want a 15A or 20A outlet, they must go on their own dedicated circuit. Nothing else may be run on your oven circuit, and you would be particularly stupid to attempt to tap into the back of it for power, whether or not you had the sense to flick the breaker first.

Yeah, Bandito. As amusing as some of your escapades might be I'd hate to see a new and improved "stupidly dangerous thing I did with my kitchen stove today" thread.

 

[Bandito]

I wont be touching the oven circuit - the gasfitter replaced one of the copper hoses to the gas bottle and retuned the regs, and it now has a hell fire flame which should boil a lot faster - is a bit hard to get it to light though. :unsure:

The two power point fuses I have - the ones that power the computer and fridges are each 16amp. So how much can I draw from these? As I stated earlier I am a bit concerned at the heat that is generated inside the walls of the house. Can I draw the full 16amp or just 10amp?

 

[LethalCorpse]

10A