Frustrated Brewer

[EK]

My last few batches of beer have been turning out rather sweet, this is really beginning to annoy the crap out of me, to the point where I am beginning to consider giving away this hobby that I have invested a serious amount of time and money into as I cannot seem to produce a good result, at least not in the last year.

When I started brewing a few years ago I did the basic K&K: Kit of Coopers and a Kilo of Dextrose from Coles, much success was had. The beers turned out well and were enjoyable. Since then I have been trying to 'improve' this process by using less dextrose, more malt, 3rd party yeasts, finishing hops, specialty grains...the usual type of thing. Here is the problem: though I am using better ingredients, I am producing beer that is too sweet.

So...recently I decided to make a bitter. I grabbed a kit of the Brewcraft English bitter and their kilo of English Bitter malt/dex/hops. Using S-04 and placing the fermenter in a 100 can cooler this fermented quite well at a steady temperature. The problem is that this brew has also turned out too sweet! and it's a freakin' Bitter!

What the hell do I have to do to make a proper beer? I don't mean that it has to be an all-grain masterpiece, I just want to make a bitter that is actually bitter. In fact I don't have the equipment (or cash for that matter) or the time for AG right now...but one day...

Has anyone else experienced the same problems? How can this be rectified in future brews?

Any help would be appreciated.

:icon_cheers:
EK

 

[peas_and_corn]

fermentation temps? yeasts used? recipes? very importantly- how do you monitor the SG?

 

[pablo_h]

Malt makes beer sweeter, it's not 100% fermentable, so some residual sugars stay after fermentation is complete. The sweetness fades with time though, you need to give it at least a month in the bottles.
I did a coopers pale ale and I went stupid on the malt, 1.4kg. That had a bitter front due to the hopping, but a very sweet malty aftertaste that got worse as it warmed up. Two weeks later, it's still there but a lot more subtle. In another month the sweetness will probably be gone.
If you want drier beers, cut back on malt and add some dextrose back in, and use yeasts with high attenuation (edit: eg nottingham instead of SO-4)

 

[beerbeergloriousbeer]

pablo_h "The sweetness fades with time though, you need to give it at least a month in the bottles."

I couldn't agree more with this.
My girlfriend brewed a Morgans export pilsner about 4 months ago.
It was really sweet in the bottle after brewing for about 2 months but slowly faded in this time.
We just had the last one about 3.5 months after brewing and pretty much all the sweetness had dissapeared leaving a crisper/drier less sweet flavour.

How long do you normally leave before drinking.
Maybe you like myself you are too keen to get stuck into your brew..... :chug:

 

[EK]

fermentation temps? yeasts used? recipes? very importantly- how do you monitor the SG?

For the recent batch of bitter:
temps between 15 an 19 degrees though I did warm it to 19 to 22 after the SG got down to 1.017 in order to get more out of the yeast.
Yest was Safale S-04.
Kit was a Brewcraft English Bitter with a kilo of Brewcraft "Beer Enhancer English Bitter No.70" described as "Special Blend of Dextrose/Malt/Hops", I hsve not been able to determine exactly what is in this mix.
OG: 1.045
After 10 days SG: 1.017 (that is 10 days since pitching)
After 14 days SG: 1.014
After 22 days SG: 1.012
FG: 1.012 (kegged at this time, also 4x500ml bottles)

Tasted yesterday (5 days in the keg and suitably carbonated).

I am not too sure what you mean by "how do you monitor the SG?" apart from stating the figures above or saying something dumb and obvious like "I use my hydrometer."

:icon_cheers:
EK

 

[EK]

pablo_h "The sweetness fades with time though, you need to give it at least a month in the bottles."

I couldn't agree more with this.
My girlfriend brewed a Morgans export pilsner about 4 months ago.
It was really sweet in the bottle after brewing for about 2 months but slowly faded in this time.
We just had the last one about 3.5 months after brewing and pretty much all the sweetness had dissapeared leaving a crisper/drier less sweet flavour.

How long do you normally leave before drinking.
Maybe you like myself you are too keen to get stuck into your brew..... :chug:

When I bottle my beer I like to leave it for at least a month but usually I have plenty of previous stock to drink so it ends up getting left for 3 to 6 months.

EK

 

[afromaiko]

If you want drier beers, cut back on malt and add some dextrose back in, and use yeasts with high attenuation (edit: eg nottingham instead of SO-4)

This will help, but it will make it drier and not necessarily more bitter like you are looking for.

An easy way would be to use Isohops bittering extract, most home brew shops will sell this. Simply add drop or two at until it's bitter enough for you. If you are kegging it will be dead easy to adjust to taste. If you are bottling you'll have to add it to your fermenter maybe a day or two before you bottle so can let any disturbed yeast settle down again. Take it easy and use it sparingly at first.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7586

Previous discussion:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=11808

 

[EK]

This will help, but it will make it drier and not necessarily more bitter like you are looking for.

An easy way would be to use Isohops bittering extract, most home brew shops will sell this. Simply add drop or two at until it's bitter enough for you. If you are kegging it will be dead easy to adjust to taste. If you are bottling you'll have to add it to your fermenter maybe a day or two before you bottle so can let any disturbed yeast settle down again. Take it easy and use it sparingly at first.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7586

Previous discussion:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=11808

I hadn't considered adding isohops to the keg...I just looked on the Craftbrewer site for some of the Liquid Hops products....however, there was no mention of them being used for bittering purposes.

EK

 

[afromaiko]

I hadn't considered adding isohops to the keg...I just looked on the Craftbrewer site for some of the Liquid Hops products....however, there was no mention of them being used for bittering purposes.

EK

I actually bought some of the Craftbrewer liquid hops myself and they are really just for aroma and flavour. You'll need the Isohops that specifically state they are for bittering.

This mob sell it down here too, but I'm sure you'll find somewhere local that stocks it.

http://liquorcraft.com.au/afawcs0133826/CA...OP-EXTRACT.html

 

[Brewtus]

Try a Brewcraft English bitter toucan.

 

[pablo_h]

Try a Brewcraft English bitter toucan.

Haha, try any toucan.

I did a coopers toucan, no other fermentables added. Still came out full strength and is soooo bitter. So if that's what you want OP, give toucans a try. Be warned though you have to age them longer to drop in bitterness to be drinkable if you try the darker kits with more IBUs in them, than you have to wait for the malt sweetness to leave a standard kit + malt.

Find the lowest IBU kit can to add to your prefered brew and try a toucan without any malts added. It's essentially malt with bittering liquid hops already added, so no reason to buy bittering liquid hops seperately, so can save money not buying the liquid hops and get a homebrand or coopers tin from BigW cheaper than most dry malts anyway. Just add a lager or draught kit can to your next prefered can brew.
edit: Didn't make much sense, but for example if you want to do a bitter, don't use the bitter kit can and DME, use the bitter kit can you want to brew and say a coopers/wanders/farmland etc draught/ale can. The extra can doubles as your malt, so no DME required, the coopers ale can had bittering hops in it, so you get an extra bitter bitter.

 

[afromaiko]

Alternatively you could substitute a portion of the second can for an equal amount of liquid (or dried) malt. For example, use half the second can and then use half an unhopped can of malt. Save the rest for your next brew.

 

[Swinging Beef]

English bitter is not a bitter beer.
Much like Imperial Pale Ale (IPA), is not pale.

Beer descriptions are historical and do not relate directly to flavour profile you might expect.
In really good beers, the bitterness is balanced by the malt flavours and the alcohol flavours.
Sounds to me like you are making some really tasty beers! I love an ENglish Bitter!

Beer judging guidelines tell us that English Bitter has between 25 and 40 IBU.
Where as IPA has bitterness between 60-80 and an Imperial IPA runs up over 100 IBU!

Have a read of the brew judges guidelines, as this might help you in chosing the style of kit you would really like to taste.
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style14.html

From what you have said, tho.. may I recommend to you an ESB Czech pilsner kit and then throw in another 30g of Saaz when you ferment and then another 30g of Saaz when you rack it for 2 weeks.
This will give you a ripper bitter Czech styled pilsner with quite high bitterness and lots of hop aroma.

Good luck.

 

[EK]

"try nottingham" - will do
"try IsoHops" - might do if the sweetness does not drop after I let it age a bit.
"try a toucan - but don't go nuts (check the kit IBU's)" - sounds good.

Thanks to all for the input.

:icon_cheers:
EK

 

[EK]

English bitter is not a bitter beer.
Much like Imperial Pale Ale (IPA), is not pale.

...

From what you have said, tho.. may I recommend to you an ESB Czech pilsner kit and then throw in another 30g of Saaz when you ferment and then another 30g of Saaz when you rack it for 2 weeks.
This will give you a ripper bitter Czech styled pilsner with quite high bitterness and lots of hop aroma.

Good luck.

I know that bitter is not exactly a very bitter beer...but also I have never tasted one that I could consider sweet.

Thanks for the suggestion of the ESB Czech pils...mgiht give it a go if I ever see one at a HBS up my way.

:icon_cheers:
EK

 

[Swinging Beef]

I know that bitter is not exactly a very bitter beer...but also I have never tasted one that I could consider sweet.

You are a damn site smarter than me, then
It took me ages to get my head around that shirt.
Im not a fan of the bitter beers, I love the belgian stuff and stout stuff myself, but my wife, and every other bloody woman that comes thru this door, seems to be nuts for super bitter brews.
Im ramping up a special IPA at the moment for the ... Ladies.... 99 IBU.

 

[EK]

Im not a fan of the bitter beers, I love the belgian stuff and stout stuff myself, but my wife, and every other bloody woman that comes thru this door, seems to be nuts for super bitter brews.
Im ramping up a special IPA at the moment for the ... Ladies.... 99 IBU.

I like the Belgians myself, not to keen on the stout however, I do like dark beers without a roasted flavour. I also enjoy beers that have are noticeably hoppy or bitter...that 99 IPA sounds good.

:icon_cheers:
EK

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Use a higher attenuating yeast strain

Use some bittering hops (boil them up with the malt for 30+ mins)

Cheers

 

[Screwtop]

Down from 1.045 to 1.012 thats an Apparent Attenuation of 72% not to bad for 04 and a finish of 12 from 45 sould not be terribly sweet, body should be medium. How is your carbonation, beers taste a little drier with a little more carbonic acid.

Screwy

 

[Hefty]

I agree with Butters and Cortez. If you're doing kits, why not boil up your dry fermetables for 30 minutes with some bittering hops to add more IBU's.
Higher attentuating yeast will help to a degree but I definitely agree that it will make it more dry, not necessarily more bitter (like someone has wiped the back of your tongue with a towel).
If you've gotten the same results with the last few kits, you should be able to do some hops calculations to adjust it in a controlled way.
I know there was a thread like this soon after I joined that suggested if you're going to use more/all malt then you should balance it with more hops.
My 2c worth.

Jono.