Fresh Wort Kits. Are They Any Good?

[quadbox]

I've brewed quite a few fresh wort kits. Almost all from the st peter's brewery mob. My take on them: some of them are very tasty brews. Definitely a lot better than anything I've achieved kit and kilo. They cost a lot. Their gravity is *always* too low for the style (many of them work out better if you dont dilute them 1/4 water as recommended by the manufacturer, but 'course that jacks the price up). They've got one hell of a lot of trub in them most of the time, which is perplexing (not being boiled hard enough to get a good hot break perhaps?).

However they've all turned out very drinkable brews, and the lack of effort is unbeatable in some ways. Still a shitload cheaper and arguably better than BoP type stuff. And you get a free cube with every one, so if you're working up to all-grain you've got a ready supply of cubes for no-chill.

Personally I pretty much only did them till I had all the equipment together to do all grain, even with quite expensive recipes all-grain works out about half the price ingredients wise. I mean, I'm sure you could make an imperial IPA that cost more than $85 for a 40L batch, but it'd be a veeery big beer.

If you're planning on brewing one, I recommend the chocolate porter, it's probably the best of the bunch. At least of the ones I've brewed.

 

[buttersd70]

Their gravity is *always* too low for the style

Who determines the "style"? BJCP? I'ts not the be all and end all. It's not gospel. It's a comprimise guide set by a panel of people that want to be able to judge beers of like character, in the context of competition. I've yet to have any beer from a commercial brewery (including micros) that even consider the 'style' guidelines to be relevant in the real world.

They've got one hell of a lot of trub in them most of the time, which is perplexing (not being boiled hard enough to get a good hot break perhaps?).

Cold break which hasn't precipitated, due to the method of manufcture. (ie the hotpacking)

Still a shitload cheaper and arguably better than BoP type stuff. And you get a free cube with every one, so if you're working up to all-grain you've got a ready supply of cubes for no-chill.

you betcha.

Personally I pretty much only did them till I had all the equipment together to do all grain, even with quite expensive recipes all-grain works out about half the price ingredients wise. I mean, I'm sure you could make an imperial IPA that cost more than $85 for a 40L batch, but it'd be a veeery big beer.

definately cheaper to do yourself....but at the end of the day, you're buying someones time. Time is money, and money is time.

 

[lczaban]

Ok if they are that good and are illegal in comps why aren't there more rantings and ravings about them? Doesn't make sense or am I missing something?

They are illegal in comps because a professional brewer has supplied the ingredients and the nouse behind the vast majority of the final product. As much as they are good, I think that they don't get a bigger rap is because most brewers want to test their own skill and judgment in making their desired beer. Using a FWK takes a lot of this skill/guesswork out of the equation. The cost side of things isn't to everyone's liking either. If people get really passionate about their brewing, they are more likely to move into AG rather than persist with using FWKs because that way they can control EVERYTHING about the brewing process and know that they are completely responsible for the end result. Call it professional pride for lack of a better term.

 

[quadbox]

Cold break which hasn't precipitated, due to the method of manufcture. (ie the hotpacking)

I dont buy that frankly. I wasnt comparing the trub level to other sorts of all-grain, I was comparing to the cubes of no-chill wort I've seen from people I know who no-chill, and they're hot-packing exactly the same as st peters.

I've also noticed that the mountain goat fresh worts (havent brewed one or tasted one yet, but I was around when a friend was brewing one) have much less trub too. Or it seemed so to me.

 

[Peter Wadey]

Ok if they are that good and are illegal in comps why aren't there more rantings and ravings about them? Doesn't make sense or am I missing something?

FWK illegal in comps? Which ones?
Not that I am aware.
I know brewers who made ESB FWK's regularly and who also did very well with them at comps at Local, State & National level.
They generally doctored them.

There are brewers that are not members of AHB.
We don't all run around telling others how wonderful/ successful we are - thank God.

Rgds,
Peter

 

[lagerman]

They are illegal in comps because a professional brewer has supplied the ingredients and the nouse behind the vast majority of the final product. As much as they are good, I think that they don't get a bigger rap is because most brewers want to test their own skill and judgment in making their desired beer. Using a FWK takes a lot of this skill/guesswork out of the equation. The cost side of things isn't to everyone's liking either. If people get really passionate about their brewing, they are more likely to move into AG rather than persist with using FWKs because that way they can control EVERYTHING about the brewing process and know that they are completely responsible for the end result. Call it professional pride for lack of a better term.

Illegal in Beer Comps ??????????????????????????????????????

I have been running the Bathurst comp. for about 14 years and we would never knock back an entry of a FWK.
They are still classified as a homebrew kit and believe me you can stuff up the process of brewing them and still make a bad beer with them. (Temps. too high, wrong yeast and many other things).
They may be made by a proffessional brewer but the homebrewer still does the final process.
They will be welcome in the Bathurst Comp. as far as I am concerned. Let's see if they can stand up to a well tickled up kit beer and a full mash brew.
I challenge any of you out there who do the FWK to save some bottles for our comp. this September.
Cheers

The Bigfella

 

[hazard]

I've brewed quite a few fresh wort kits. Almost all from the st peter's brewery mob. My take on them: some of them are very tasty brews. Definitely a lot better than anything I've achieved kit and kilo. They cost a lot. Their gravity is *always* too low for the style (many of them work out better if you dont dilute them 1/4 water as recommended by the manufacturer, but 'course that jacks the price up). They've got one hell of a lot of trub in them most of the time, which is perplexing (not being boiled hard enough to get a good hot break perhaps?).

I've made 3 brews using Grain and Grape FWKs. They specify gravity of 1060, and I have measured exactly that when I got them home. So, I then either dilute (to get a medium strength brown ale) or add a small partial mash (to make a strong Belgian Ale) and I get exactly the right FG. Also, there is NO trub in the G&G kits.

With yeast (Wyeast) and grains, it has cost me about $60 to make 23L of strong Belgian Ale at around 7.5% ABV. I'm sure AG is cheaper on the ingredient size, but then I haven't spent lots of dollars on an AG set up (If I had the money there is no where to put it anyway) so this is the only way I can get an all grain beer. And let's face it - Chimay is $8 a stubbie at Dan Murphys so I have still saved a couple of hundred bucks compard to retail price. I don't use them all the time, but think they certainly have a place.

hazard

 

[FireBlade]

I use the Grain And Grape FWs for all my brews. I tried the ND ones but found them always to have a low SG when topped up to 20lt, some even went as low as 1038. The G & G ones give me 22lt of full strength, just add hops, yeast and water. There's no way I could go back to kits + bits.

 

[brettprevans]

personally I recon they are great and have a place. if your strapped for imt or want to experiance AG. but they are expensive and most of the work has already been done for you. to some thats a positive to some thats a negative. To me its a big negative, as I like to have complete control over my beer. im a homebrewer not a home fermentor. just my views.

and there's nothing wrong with kits and bits. Fireblade, if you ever around my area I challange you to come over and see if you can pick which one of my beers is K&B and which one is AG. I bet you cant tell the differance (at least with my dark and semi darks). get the fundamentals of brewing right and you can make great beer with the basics. just remeber just becuase you make AG you can still screw it up.

EDIT
Chappo to answer your OT question, yes they are ok. some reciepes are on the G&G website. You can also take the recipes of any of the recipes on here and adapt them using specialty grains and hop schediules

 

[Spiderpig]

Hi all,

I've done quite a few FWK's all of which have been amber ales of different descriptions.

The best one I've done IMHO has to be the 5 Malts Amber Ale, this is so yummy, I savour every drop. I have made a few of these now and they are good. I would suggest they are best left at least 2 months before consuming to really get the right notes in the flavour. I just use the US-05 ale yeast and it seems to work a treat.

If I would offer one suggestion it might be to steep a little carapils for some head retention. That is my only real criticism. I drink them straight from my collection of JSAA stubbies, there s a fair amount of sediment but it sticks really well to the bottom of the stubbie.

Go the 5 malt Amber Ale. I reckon it tastes a lot like the Barons Black Wattle or the Razorback Red Ale. Very good beer, you won't be disappointed.

Cheers,

Spider

 

[chappo1970]

Thanks guys for the input... the varying opinions IMO is what makes this forum great! Cheers

I am going to give these FWK's a whirl this weekend and see what happens. I think I might go for a summer ale or an IPA if available. Not sure which brand as I will have to see what Craftbrewer or the LHBS has in stock. I am familiar with these styles so it would be a reasonable bench mark for me to judge and form my opinion on these things. I will post the results back here for all that maybe interested.

To summarise the input into this thread to date:

1. Worthwhile doing but is more expensive than say K&Bits.
2. Good insight to how a reasonable AG brew should be if you haven't tried one (that's me to a tee)
3. Competition admission legal/illegal that's still out to debate but the yea's might have it?
4. Use a good yeast as you would with a K&K
5. Maintain good brewing practices
6. Watch the OG from the kit and add enough water only to obtain a reasonable OG for the style
7. Can add hops and odds and bobs to flavour to liking
8. Can leave out the hops and odds and bobs and still have a reasonable brew.
9. G&G have some interesting recipes for FWK's on their website
10. Fresher the FWK the better?
11. Get free cubes for when I get into AG (I reckon thats a bonus)
12. Less effort required to brew so more time to drink the spoils
13. Could give one the push and inspiration to move to full on AG.
14. Generally better than K&K

As a side issue I will enter my first FWK brew into a competition. I will check what's going at BABB's and have a go to settle the legal/illegal debate. Also Lagerman I will happily send you a few bottles of my first FWK brew to enter in the comp. Sounds like fun. Thanks for the invite. My Uncle and Aunty live in Bathhurst so I can have him enter them on my behalf I will PM you to arrange.

If I have missed something please flame me! :lol:

Cheers

Chappo

 

[staggalee]

There are brewers that are not members of AHB.
We don't all run around telling others how wonderful/ successful we are - thank God

Steady on there.......no one here`s done that for at least a week. :lol:

stagga.

 

[dr K]

Like Peter Wadey, I have no idea where the concept that Wort Kits were illegal arose. They are not, never have been and have no reason to be. You are still the brewer, you select the yeast, the dilution ratio and any extras, no different to a can of concentrated "wort".

Who determines the "style"? BJCP? I'ts not the be all and end all. It's not gospel. It's a comprimise guide set by a panel of people that want to be able to judge beers of like character, in the context of competition. I've yet to have any beer from a commercial brewery (including micros) that even consider the 'style' guidelines to be relevant in the real world.

As to the BJCP guidlines, well the BJCP guidlines are very very close to the BA guidlines though the BA guidlines encompass far more beers WBC Guidlines.
The real world is about style guidlines, is about the diffference between an IPA and an APA, no-one is stopping you calling your APA an IPA, and maybe some folks cannot tell the difference, if these folks are the real world then there is no need for competitions based on style in the real world. Myself I like to live in that other, unreal to some, world.

Oh, the Wort Kits are very good, far better than anything you will ever produce from a can of mars bars base and some "bits".

K

 

[Jakechan]

Thanks guys for the input... the varying opinions IMO is what makes this forum great! Cheers

I am going to give these FWK's a whirl this weekend and see what happens. I think I might go for a summer ale or an IPA if available. Not sure which brand as I will have to see what Craftbrewer or the LHBS has in stock. I am familiar with these styles so it would be a reasonable bench mark for me to judge and form my opinion on these things. I will post the results back here for all that maybe interested.

To summarise the input into this thread to date:

1. Worthwhile doing but is more expensive than say K&Bits.
2. Good insight to how a reasonable AG brew should be if you haven't tried one (that's me to a tee)
3. Competition admission legal/illegal that's still out to debate but the yea's might have it?
4. Use a good yeast as you would with a K&K
5. Maintain good brewing practices
6. Watch the OG from the kit and add enough water only to obtain a reasonable OG for the style
7. Can add hops and odds and bobs to flavour to liking
8. Can leave out the hops and odds and bobs and still have a reasonable brew.
9. G&G have some interesting recipes for FWK's on their website
10. Fresher the FWK the better?
11. Get free cubes for when I get into AG (I reckon thats a bonus)
12. Less effort required to brew so more time to drink the spoils
13. Could give one the push and inspiration to move to full on AG.
14. Generally better than K&K

As a side issue I will enter my first FWK brew into a competition. I will check what's going at BABB's and have a go to settle the legal/illegal debate. Also Lagerman I will happily send you a few bottles of my first FWK brew to enter in the comp. Sounds like fun. Thanks for the invite. My Uncle and Aunty live in Bathhurst so I can have him enter them on my behalf I will PM you to arrange.

If I have missed something please flame me! :lol:

Cheers

Chappo

You are a thorough man Chappo. This dedication will see you very successful in home brewing mate, and I dont think it will be long before you are doing AG.
Cheers,
Jake

 

[mwd]

Anybody tried the NNL FWK's sold under the Brewcraft name ?

They are the type sold by my LHBS.

The most common name seems to be the Brewers Selection range but being heavy I would imagine courier costs from the online stores would make them quite expensive to ship.

 

[chappo1970]

TB in about 3 weeks time I can ya mate! :lol:

But seriously... the NNL brew I tried at the LHBS wasn't bad at all. That's what sparked me to give it a go.
The LHBS stocks NNL FWK's so the plan was to head over there tomorrow morning but...

if I get to Craftbrewers it might be a very different story, probably walk in wanting a FWK and walk out with an AG brewery. (That Ross is smooth, very smooth! :blink: )

You might have a hard time getting anything up that way ATM with a the flooding and all the roads out.

Hope someone can enlighten you more on the NNL FWK's TB. Sorry I'm not much use to ya mate I am Noomby at FWK's myself.

 

[///]

I'm pretty sure they're illegal

As someone who is often lampooned for his poor use of the English language, i wonder how the 'rules' of a competition have become part of the cannon of Australian Law to make them 'illegal'.

Also i do not mean to pray on folks who are not privy to as much info as I am lucky to have been, but the last time I checked the same professional brewers who make Coopers trade beers also make their extract.

The wort all comes from Coopers Meura mash filter and thier Briggs brewhouse. That being so, and with Coopers being the main supplier of malt extract to the Australian Home Brewing industry, it would therefore make near every malt extract brew entered into a comp 'illegal'. What is a difference between a FWK and Malt Extract - a vacumm evaporator - both brewers mash and boil in a brewhouse the product by a professional brewer....

NNL has tight quality control mechanisms put into place by thier head brewer Dr Simon Brooke-Taylor. Check the gravity, I doubt it will be out by a tolerance level of 1.002 from that stated on the packaging. Simon runs a tight ship and expects those that brew for him to be just as tight; I know it was me for several years!

Scotty

 

[Adamt]

I was just about to say something very similar:

All homebrew kits are evaporated, all-grain wort.

 

[warrenlw63]

expects those that brew for him to be just as tight; I know it was me for several years!

:blink: Little bit of on the job hazing there? Sure hope you don't sit down on the job too often Scotty! :lol:

Warren -

 

[///]

:blink: Little bit of on the job hazing there? Sure hope you don't sit down on the job too often Scotty! :lol:

Warren -

Simon's also a pommy ... well where could we go with that one.... jeez i hate you guys sometimes...

Scotty