Fresh From Blighty

[geoffi]

My in-laws just got back from two weeks in the Old Dart. They brought me back a few gifts, to wit one bottle each London Pride, Bombadier and Bishop's Finger. Bought from a London supermarket two days ago. I've always thought English ales bought in Australia were not a patch on what I remember from drinking in the UK, and assumed they didn't travel well. I'm looking forward to testing that theory.

 

[brad05]

My in-laws just got back from two weeks in the Old Dart. They brought me back a few gifts, to wit one bottle each London Pride, Bombadier and Bishop's Finger. Bought from a London supermarket two days ago. I've always thought English ales bought in Australia were not a patch on what I remember from drinking in the UK, and assumed they didn't travel well. I'm looking forward to testing that theory.

Nice . Obviously you have some good in-laws. My outlaws would probably bring back a souvenir teaspoon.

 

[mje1980]

Geoff, lucky bugger!!. Bombadier is available here, i think at dans. A side by side will tell you much. Let us know results

 

[hsb]

LP and BF are also available in certain stockists but I'd guess they definitely took their time arriving, not like the machine that is the Tesco's distribution chain.. chin chin, down the hatch etc.. :beer:

 

[geoffi]

Geoff, lucky bugger!!. Bombadier is available here, i think at dans. A side by side will tell you much. Let us know results

Good idea, Mark. I think I've seen it there too. If I can get a locally bought sample of each, I could really make it a 'blind tasting'... :icon_cheers:

 

[Shed101]

I've always thought English ales bought in Australia were not a patch on what I remember from drinking in the UK, and assumed they didn't travel well. I'm looking forward to testing that theory.

Same here ... but then I think it may be in part because I didn't often drink bottled beer - not a patch on the real deal.

 

[white.grant]

Figtree cellars has bishops finger and London pride. The first bishops finger I had tasted fabulous, all of the others haven't. The clear bottles are a problem. Enjoy your souvenirs.

Cheers

Grant

 

[under]

Wells Bombadier is a cracker.

 

[Bribie G]

My in-laws just got back from two weeks in the Old Dart. They brought me back a few gifts, to wit one bottle each London Pride, Bombadier and Bishop's Finger. Bought from a London supermarket two days ago. I've always thought English ales bought in Australia were not a patch on what I remember from drinking in the UK, and assumed they didn't travel well. I'm looking forward to testing that theory.

If you drank cask versions in the UK then they would definitely be better than the bottled variety. Apart from Lagers and cheap 'creamflow' beers, poms aren't into bottled beer drinking much, the fairly recent supply of pint bottles of the likes of TTL and Bombardier etc are made for the boutique and export market and are generally filtered, pasteurised and artificially carbonated versions of the 'living' cask beer. Really they are more in the category of UK "keg beers".

Australians often have a bit of a paridigm problem here because, of course, XXXX or Carlton Draught or VB is basically the same whether it's out of a bottle or out of the keg at the bar and often assume that their bottle of Bombardier is the same as would be shoved over the bar at them in an English Pub.
I buy them myself and enjoy them, but fully realise that they are a different version to the 'real ale' article which is cask conditioned, non pasteurised and a true living ale. Nonetheless they can be quite tasty in their own way, as a can of Brains SA proved the other month.

 

[mje1980]

I know full well that they are different, but jeez, they're bloody nice beers hehe. If they are slightly inferior/not quite as good, i can't wait til the day i get to go and taste them for myself in a UK pub!. I drool at the thought.

 

[hsb]

If you drank cask versions in the UK then they would definitely be better than the bottled variety.

Amen to that. Youngs Special London is the only remaining Bottle Conditioned English beer I've seen available over here. There used to be Hen's Tooth and a couple of others around. I know that's still not the same thing as a cask ale but it's a damn sight closer to having a living ale and tastes so much more complex and rounded imvho, massive difference.
Lucky we all brew our own anyway! Certainly what originally kick started my interest in the pursuit of homebrew.

 

[Shed101]

I've seen White Shield over here, too ... I think.

This thread has reminded me of trying Cooper's Sparkling for the first time, in a bottle, in the UK in about 2001. My local deli. had a pretty good beer range, I saw it and though hmmmm, Aussie beer, then saw it was 5.8% and bottle-conditioned and decided to give it a go...

Chilled it drank it, decided never to drink it again.

Four years later and i'm living in Brisbane, avoiding Cooper's until an American friend visiting says he thinks it's great. Try it again and now it's my go to. 'Transportation' obviously doesn't always work in either direction.

Interestingly, i've just discovered that there were Australian ales sold in England as long ago as the 1890s! More about that in another thread perhaps.

 

[Shed101]

When I was working in London in the late 80's into the early 90's, they started selling Victoria Bitter at Tescos. But the cans had to be changed to "Victoria Beer" so as not to confuse the poms that it wasn't really a bitter. Some would say its not really a beer either.

I remember trying it in 'Sheila's' in Covent Garden in 1996 ... and it was proper rank! I've lived in Oz five years and have managed to avoid ever drinking it.

 

[bconnery]

Apart from Lagers and cheap 'creamflow' beers, poms aren't into bottled beer drinking much, the fairly recent supply of pint bottles of the likes of TTL and Bombardier etc are made for the boutique and export market and are generally filtered, pasteurised and artificially carbonated versions of the 'living' cask beer. Really they are more in the category of UK "keg beers".

Australians often have a bit of a paridigm problem here because, of course, XXXX or Carlton Draught or VB is basically the same whether it's out of a bottle or out of the keg at the bar and often assume that their bottle of Bombardier is the same as would be shoved over the bar at them in an English Pub.
I buy them myself and enjoy them, but fully realise that they are a different version to the 'real ale' article which is cask conditioned, non pasteurised and a true living ale. Nonetheless they can be quite tasty in their own way, as a can of Brains SA proved the other month.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one Bribie.

The bottled beer market in the UK was already fairly large when I was there in 99-02, and there were an even larger range when I was back in 06.
Camra even has a separate champion bottled beer in its awards, and a guide to buying bottled beer on its site.

Yes these are different versions of the cask beers, but there where also a number of high profile breweries, Theakstons, Hopback, Adnams, Youngs et. al producing some of their most popular beers in bottle and also some releases that were mainly bottle only.
Many of these are not just versions made mostly for export, many are bottle conditioned, and many are very nice beers in their own right.
These were mostly in the styles of above 4% though, with the exception of a few milds, the 'standard' bitter still remained by and large a cask only beer...

I think the need to compete with lagers, which led to the rise of the summer/golden ale, had a similar effect on bottled beers, as well as the rise of supermarkets as a beer sales point.

I agree that Bombadier in the bottle in Aus is not going to be the same as Bombadier of the cask, and also that the bottled version we receive here will not be up to scratch in comparision, but don't be too quick to decry the bottled beers of England, especially when in England. There are some very tasty brews to be had.

 

[Shed101]

I'm going to disagree with you on this one Bribie.

The bottled beer market in the UK was already fairly large when I was there in 99-02, and there were an even larger range when I was back in 06.
Camra even has a separate champion bottled beer in its awards, and a guide to buying bottled beer on its site.

Yes these are different versions of the cask beers, but there where also a number of high profile breweries, Theakstons, Hopback, Adnams, Youngs et. al producing some of their most popular beers in bottle and also some releases that were mainly bottle only.
Many of these are not just versions made mostly for export, many are bottle conditioned, and many are very nice beers in their own right.
These were mostly in the styles of above 4% though, with the exception of a few milds, the 'standard' bitter still remained by and large a cask only beer...

I think the need to compete with lagers, which led to the rise of the summer/golden ale, had a similar effect on bottled beers, as well as the rise of supermarkets as a beer sales point.

I agree that Bombadier in the bottle in Aus is not going to be the same as Bombadier of the cask, and also that the bottled version we receive here will not be up to scratch in comparision, but don't be too quick to decry the bottled beers of England, especially when in England. There are some very tasty brews to be had.

I think it's about the point of reference BC. My point of reference is cask ale (having started on it in pubs as a 13 year old). I was encouraged by my old man to avoid kegs on pain of death - we regularly walked out of pubs if there was no handpump or gravity option. He only really drinks German beers at home. We cask-snobs can be as biased as megaswillers about what constitutes proper beer.

Here's a quote from Richard Boston (RIP) about CAMRA- though they have evolved somewhat - writing in the early '70s: "It has been said that some of their members would drink castor oil if it came from a hand pump, and would reject nectar if it had no more than looked at carbon dioxide."

And while the drink-at-home category has definitely had a resurgence in the UK in the past decade due to the cost of booze in pubs (saloon bars c.1920s-30s often only served bottles as it was considered better than cask and pale ale was the term to differentiate from the bottled version of the bitter), I really believe a lot of it is about the fancy labels and marketing from the likes of Wychwood, Greene King and all the followers.

While I get your point, I agree with Bribie. English bottled beer is inferior, bottle-conditioned is the next best thing. Christ if I was pushing on into the wee hours in a place that sells fizzy pop as beer I would drink Newcy Brown in a bottle over kegged lager, and I find it a sickly disgrace when i'm sober. You just can't recapture the mouthfeel and flavours from a bottle. However, until I figure out my own cask-dispense system for my homebrew it won't stop me from trying

EDIT: And sorry OP ... I am still really interested to hear about the side-by-side tastings between fresh and older beer.

 

[bconnery]

I think it's about the point of reference BC. My point of reference is cask ale (having started on it in pubs as a 13 year old). I was encouraged by my old man to avoid kegs on pain of death - we regularly walked out of pubs if there was no handpump or gravity option. He only really drinks German beers at home. We're cask-snobs as biased as megaswillers are about what constitutes proper beer.

Here's a quote from Richard Boston (RIP) about CAMRA- though they have evolved somewhat - writing in the early '70s: "It has been said that some of their members would drink castor oil if it came from a hand pump, and would reject nectar if it had no more than looked at carbon dioxide."

And while the drink-at-home category has definitely had a resurgence in the UK in the past decade due to the cost of booze in pubs (saloon bars c.1920s-30s often only served bottles as it was considered better than cask and pale ale was the term to differentiate from the bottled version of the bitter), I really believe a lot of it is about the fancy labels and marketing from the likes of Wychwood, Greene King and all the followers.

While I get your point, I agree with Bribie. English bottled beer is inferior, bottle-conditioned is the next best thing. Christ if I was pushing on into the wee hours in a place that sells fizzy pop as beer I would drink Newcy Brown in a bottle over kegged lager, and I find it a sickly disgrace when i'm sober. You just can't recapture the mouthfeel and flavours from a bottle. However, until I figure out my own cask-dispense system for my homebrew it won't stop me from trying

Yes, but I specifically removed Bribie's line about cask beer being better because this wasn't what I was disagreeing with, but rather his point about the english not drinking bottled beers other than lagers and 'creamflow' beers.
There are a lot of bottled beers from breweries of all shapes and sizes, and many of them are very good in my book.

Regardless of whether the push has been from the bigger breweries the fact remains that the market is there.

I'd take a mild pushed from a handpump over almost any of them, but that isn't to say they aren't good...

 

[Shed101]

Yes, but I specifically removed Bribie's line about cask beer being better because this wasn't what I was disagreeing with, but rather his point about the english not drinking bottled beers other than lagers and 'creamflow' beers.

Oh well, aren't I a twunt then :lol: Didn't spot that.

... god, don't get me onto friggin' creamflow! :excl:

 

[bconnery]

Oh well, aren't I a twunt then :lol: Didn't spot that.

... god, don't get me onto friggin' creamflow! :excl:

Come on, Tetleys Smoothpour served nice and cold, you know you want it

 

[Shed101]

Come on, Tetleys Smoothpour served nice and cold, you know you want it

I thought i told you not to get me onto that!

Too late

I had a local, in 'ackney in the late '90s that did 99p pints of some-thing-or-other on cask. It was passable, but better than anything else.

Went in there one night with Dad and they were all out, so we gave the Tetley's smoothflow a go. Only had 3 and went home to bed. Dad got a stinger nitro-headache that woke him up at 3am. It was so bad he got up and went to work, three hours away.

 

[geoffi]

OK. I've done my first tastings.

First up was the Bishop's Finger. Wow. Rich caramels, succulent dried fruit, earthy hops, full-bodied...a cracker to the last drop.

Next the Bomadier. Now for this one I was able to obtain another bottle from DM for comparison.

Tried the bottle bought in London first. Similar to the BF in caramel, fruit, hops etc. Not quite as full bodied, and alcohol more apparent. Maybe a little 'toastier'. A variation on the theme, but equally superb.

Last the DM Bombadier. A very fine beer, and all the same elements there, but somehow not the punchiness. More subdued.

Now for the weird part. The use-by date on the London Bombadier: April 2011; the Dan Murphy: June 2011.

So the Dan Murphy bottle was in fact fresher than the one bought in the London supermarket! And yet I preferred the 'older' bottle, which bizarrely seemed 'fresher'.

Now there's an obvious flaw in my experimental design. It wasn't a blind tasting, so the fact that I was aware of which was which and might have had a preconceived notion could well have played a part. And maybe my tastebuds were 'bittered out' by the time I got to the third bottle. But still the differences seemed to me quite noticeable.

Further research needed!