"fresh" apple juice cider not doing much after 5 days

[manticle]

@ boonchu - what yeasts ( besides 04 and wlp775 which is marketed as english cider yeast anyway) do you think make good cider and what's a commrcial example of that kind of cider?

Also where is the info on strains of cider yeast and their relationship to wine yeast? I can't find anything and I'm interested.

Cheers

 

[nosco]

Not really a cider drinker but I would like to try a nice example of a good English or French cider.

 

[manticle]

Thatchers or Henneys are good UK and reasonably available.

Cidre d'anneville is a favourite of mine but french (breton/normanndy) is a step into funktown so be ready.

 

[MHB]

I to think it takes great Cider Apples to make great Cider. The difference is chalk and cheese.
Problem is that anyone in Australia that has proper cider apples can sell them for whatever they like to ask for, demand exceeds supply and even a small amount of cider juice will improve eating apple juice dramatically.
Mark

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

where is the info on strains of cider yeast and their relationship to wine yeast? I can't find anything and I'm interested.

Much of the academic work on cider yeasts has been on indentifying the muliplicity of yeasts present in feral ferments. In England at least, cider strains were derived from these cider ferments (mostly back in the 60's).

The cider yeasts selected have similar gene complements to wine yeasts but this is an example of selection for similar traits (complete fermentation, low temperature fermentation) rather than derivation.

Industrial cidermakers often use actual wine yeasts to take advantage of their high alcohol tolerance (see for instance "Yeasts in Food and Beverages" Querol and Fleet, Springer 2006 p 37*); this is because they do a lot of ferments using concentrate to achieve higher gravity then cut back post ferment. One perceived problem with this appoach is that the resulting cider lacks esters.


* The Fleet in the author list is Prof Graham Fleet, who wrote the standard textbook on wine microbiology. He was also my thesis supervisor.

 

[manticle]

Thankyou

 

[manticle]

Looks like a great text. Unfortunately I don't have $500 to spare.

Good brewing texts always cost a bomb.

 

[boonchu]

@ boonchu - what yeasts ( besides 04 and wlp775 which is marketed as english cider yeast anyway) do you think make good cider and what's a commrcial example of that kind of cider?

Also where is the info on strains of cider yeast and their relationship to wine yeast? I can't find anything and I'm interested.

Cheers

Most of my info comes from talking to the reps for mj and safale. And it seems they use a version of ec1118 or sn9
As for what makes a ggod cider yeast, imo it is more about what you want from it. Do you want bone dry or sweet? Full bodied and ester profiles. If you can find a good rose yeast or chardy

 

[boonchu]

Some good yeast charts

 

[boonchu]

Some good yeast charts

 

[Airgead]

Couple of things you need to remember about yeasts and ciders...

1- the sugar profile is diferent in apple juice compared to beer. Apple juice is all simple sugars. This means that any beer yeasts attenuation figure is essentially meaningless when applied to a cider. Rule of thumb - it will end up dry. Wine yeasts get a closer result to their published figures because the sugar profile is similar.

2- the ester profile will end up diferent because many of the precursor chemicals that the yeast uses to make the esters just aren't present in juice. Or are present at lower amounts. Or are present in higher amounts. The ester profile you get in a beer is an indication of what it will do in a cider but the actual result will be diferent. Similar, but diferent. Again wine years are closer to their performance in grape wine but there will be differences.

Generally for using beer yeaasts in cider, it will end up a lot dryer than you expect and the ester profile will be similar but very muted compared to what you expect.

Wine yeasts are usually pretty close to what you would expect.

For the record, 71b is my cider yeast of choice.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

For the record, 71b is my cider yeast of choice.

Is this easily available in small quantities?

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Looks like a great text. Unfortunately I don't have $500 to spare.

Good brewing texts always cost a bomb.

I was able to find a PDF easily enough, if that helps

 

[damoninja]

I love S04 for ciders too, have used a few cider and wine labelled yeasts but do like what I get out of the S04.

 

[wareemba]

For the record, 71b is my cider yeast of choice.

yay!

it's the guy who got me into making cider!

do you have an opinion on my OP describing my *non-active* juice + yeast bucket?

is it because the juice I used has preservative 202 in it that it is not working?

 

[wareemba]

Is this easily available in small quantities?

is 10g small enough? http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/lalvin-71b-for-nouveau-style-wines

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

is 10g small enough? http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/lalvin-71b-for-nouveau-style-wines

Yep, thanks.

 

[Airgead]

I was going to point you at ibrew as well. It's the only place I know where you can get 71b in under a half kilo size.

@wareemba probably. 202 is potassium sorbate which inhibits yeast reproduction. I use the stuff (as sorbistat) when I back sweeten and don't want re fermentation. So yes, you have added some yeast and it has been unable to reproduce due to the sorbate. The yeast will ferment but without being able to build up its numbers it will ferment very slowly and probably not finish properly.

Not sure what you can do about it. No idea whether you can neutralise it with something.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Not sure what you can do about it. No idea whether you can neutralise it with something.

As stated above you can oxidise it with peroxide.

 

[Airgead]

Ahhh yes indeed. Missed that bit. The peroxide would nuke any remaining yeast as well so a new pitch would be needed.

I suspect at this point the easiest option would be to get some new juice and make sure that 202 is not on the ingredient list...