French Biere De Garde

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Muscovy_333

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Hi All,

I am formulating the following 'experiment' and would be interested in peoples thoughts:

#21 Le Francaise Biere de Garde
Biere de Garde

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 6.000
Total Hops (g): 70.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.061 (P): 15.0
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (P): 3.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.99 %
Colour (SRM): 4.5 (EBC): 8.9
Bitterness (IBU): 21.3 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Pilsner (66.67%)
1.000 kg Wheat Malt (16.67%)
0.500 kg Munich I (8.33%)
0.500 kg Vienna (8.33%)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Chinook Pellet (10% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
15.0 g Strisselspalt Pellet (2.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
10.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (2.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Strisselspalt Pellet (2.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
15.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (2.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
Fermented at XXC with 3725 Wyeast biere de garde (PC)

Notes
----------------
Pilsner= Premium floor malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt
Vienna= JW Vienna
Munich1= Wey Munich1

YEAST: 3725 Wyeast biere de garde (PC) (not in drop down menu)

Step mash:
TEMP: 55/62/68/72/78
TIME: 5/10/40/10/10

add lactic acid and Mg SO4 to the mash water (tbc)
Add homegrown herb/spice (tbc)

Recipe Generated with BrewMate
 

manticle

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Only thing I would change would be the chinook. I know people claim bittering adds no flavour but I beg, from my experience, to differ.

If you have a desire for the piney resin of chinook in your beer, then ignore what I say - if you are simply using a high aa% hop for bittering, hoping it won't shine through then bite the bullet and just add what you would be happy to taste in the final result.

Mash regime looks familiar and I expect it should give a good result.
 

Muscovy_333

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Only thing I would change would be the chinook. I know people claim bittering adds no flavour but I beg, from my experience, to differ.

If you have a desire for the piney resin of chinook in your beer, then ignore what I say - if you are simply using a high aa% hop for bittering, hoping it won't shine through then bite the bullet and just add what you would be happy to taste in the final result.

Mash regime looks familiar and I expect it should give a good result.

Mash regime should look familiar..it's your IP... I was following your previous thread and your obvious satisfaction with the mash for your Belgians so figured it a good starting point! ( You will be acknowledged if the beer works out, and you will have no association if it does not...)


Point taken on the Chinook. Im going to move to a more suitable Noble bittering.

thanks again
 

Online Brewing Supplies

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Only thing I would change would be the chinook. I know people claim bittering adds no flavour but I beg, from my experience, to differ.

If you have a desire for the piney resin of chinook in your beer, then ignore what I say - if you are simply using a high aa% hop for bittering, hoping it won't shine through then bite the bullet and just add what you would be happy to taste in the final result.

Mash regime looks familiar and I expect it should give a good result.
Oh yeah it adds lots of flavour.
Nev
 

manticle

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Anyone of the opinion that high aa hops used for bittering will add nothing to the brew besides bittering should do the following:

Brew three beers side by side (or close to)

5 kg JW ale or equivalent neutral-ish pale.
100g pale or med crystal (optional)

Mash at 65 degrees.

Add hops to 30 IBU at 60 minutes only.

Beer 1: Centennial
Beer 2: Pride of Ringwood
Beer 3: Target or first Gold.

Ferment at 20 deg C with a neutral yeast like 05, 1056 or 1272 (as long as the yeast is the same for all).

Compare

Some hops you are more likely to get away with it than others - eg. Northern Brewer or Magnum and if you have a ton of late hop additions, you will probably disguise the bittering addition but the idea that an ingredient will add absolutely nothing to final flavour/result is in my experience, a furphy.
 

dr K

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replace the chinook with Aramis....(or Amaris as some say)
its a fantastic hop and much more sophisticated

K
 

manticle

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They named a hop after one of the three musketeers?

Interested in researching such a potentially elegant hop (from memory, he was the romantic one).
 

dr K

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They named a hop after one of the three musketeers?

Interested in researching such a potentially elegant hop (from memory, he was the romantic one).
Thats it, I call it ..Old Spice 2011
Stone Brewing have used it, I spoke to them about on a recent visit.
An Aussie collab beer by the girls was made with it at well at True South
I have only used it once was impressed by the aroma...

K
 

manticle

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Have recently used spalt for the first time. Not used strisselspalt nor, as mentioned, the romantic womanising hop but would be very interested to have a crack at same grist, different hop for any of the farmhouse styles (B de G, B de M, Saison etc). Good to know it isn't just the yanks cranking out high aa versions of different hops.
 

stakka82

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"Some hops you are more likely to get away with it than others - eg. Northern Brewer or Magnum and if you have a ton of late hop additions, you will probably disguise the bittering addition but the idea that an ingredient will add absolutely nothing to final flavour/result is in my experience, a furphy."

I brew a red ale regularly with a single addition of northdown for bittering.

One time I was low on Northdown so I used half POR for the bittering, and i could DEFINITELY taste a difference in the beer. Almost to the point of ruining it (it did get better with age in the bottle though).
 

manticle

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Use marris otter instead of JW ale.
Use 1469 instead of US05
Use dark crystal instead of light
Use CaSO4 instead of Cacl2
Use centennial instead of hallertau


Every ingredient makes a difference.
 

Muscovy_333

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Thats it, I call it ..Old Spice 2011
Stone Brewing have used it, I spoke to them about on a recent visit.
An Aussie collab beer by the girls was made with it at well at True South
I have only used it once was impressed by the aroma...

K

Dr K,


Where can one find the romantic womaniser Aramis?

I have not seen it in my LHBS.

How would you describe it? Spicy?
 

Muscovy_333

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Hi All,

I am formulating the following 'experiment' and would be interested in peoples thoughts:

#21 Le Francaise Biere de Garde
Biere de Garde

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 6.000
Total Hops (g): 70.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.061 (P): 15.0
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (P): 3.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.99 %
Colour (SRM): 4.5 (EBC): 8.9
Bitterness (IBU): 21.3 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Pilsner (66.67%)
1.000 kg Wheat Malt (16.67%)
0.500 kg Munich I (8.33%)
0.500 kg Vienna (8.33%)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Chinook Pellet (10% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
15.0 g Strisselspalt Pellet (2.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
10.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (2.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Strisselspalt Pellet (2.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
15.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (2.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
Fermented at XXC with 3725 Wyeast biere de garde (PC)

Notes
----------------
Pilsner= Premium floor malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt
Vienna= JW Vienna
Munich1= Wey Munich1

YEAST: 3725 Wyeast biere de garde (PC) (not in drop down menu)

Step mash:
TEMP: 55/62/68/72/78
TIME: 5/10/40/10/10

add lactic acid and Mg SO4 to the mash water (tbc)
Add homegrown herb/spice (tbc)

Recipe Generated with BrewMate

Leaning towards Motueka (B Saaz) or Perle as a bittering hop instead of Chinook. If i could find some Aramis I'd do it..sounds like what I want!

Thoughts...anyone....anyone....anyone...beuller?
 

manticle

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My personal take - use the hops you are using for the rest of the brew. I know they are low aa% but a lot of noble/low aa% type hops give a lovely smooth bitterness and obviously the flavour compounds fit with the rest of the brew.

Otherwise northern brewer for higher aa%, neutral-ish hop.
 

Muscovy_333

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My personal take - use the hops you are using for the rest of the brew. I know they are low aa% but a lot of noble/low aa% type hops give a lovely smooth bitterness and obviously the flavour compounds fit with the rest of the brew.

Otherwise northern brewer for higher aa%, neutral-ish hop.

Righto, I'm back to Strisselspalt and Styrian Goldings all the way.
I'm going to stick with the 3725 Biere de Garde yeast and see how it goes at 28 C.

At least I wont have introduced too many variables for my first round.

Musc
 

Tony

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Some hops you are more likely to get away with it than others - eg. Northern Brewer or Magnum and if you have a ton of late hop additions, you will probably disguise the bittering addition but the idea that an ingredient will add absolutely nothing to final flavour/result is in my experience, a furphy.
100% agree

It may only be a little bit of Chinook bit Chinook is famous for its bold character and the bite it adds to a beer in bitterness........ not what you want in this brew.

You want refined, soft, rounded flavours and aromas, and the use of low alpha hops to bitter is a wonderful thing!

10g of Chinook o bitter may not make much bad difference but it wont add anything to the beer either.

40g or 2.5% AA hops to bitter will add a wonderful creaminess and stable long lasting hop character th the beer that cant be replicated with late hops.

Try a Pilsner Erquelle, they dont hop after 40 min !!!!!!!

Most of my beers are made with a 45 min bittering addition of low alpha hops these days.... far better results

If you own a big brewery and want to save money, use some 17% hops to bitter and a bit of late hops to please the few, but if your a home brewer...... hook in with the hops.

cheers
 

Nick JD

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Once the BdG funk hits your tongue, the bittering hops will be irrelevant.
 

Muscovy_333

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Once the BdG funk hits your tongue, the bittering hops will be irrelevant.

Well the BdG funk just got shifted to the 3724 Belgain Saison Funkola twang.
No BdG available and I'm going to forge ahead...

Where's Tony?? He predicted this would happen!

Same grain bill, Chinook subbed for Strisselspalt to the same IBU as OP... targeting 29 degrees...Tony where are you?

I want your Saison blessing.
 

Nick JD

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Much better off with Saison than BdG.

BdG tastes like corked wine.
 

manticle

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Sorry Nick but while your BdG may taste like corked wine, mine doesn't so I call bollocks.
 
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