Fox Den Brewing - Electric Control Panel Build

[_Mick_]

Wow mate, look incredable.
Where did you get the control pannel enclosure/box/cabnet from?
You have inspired me to start collecting the gear to do my own...

 

[mofox1]

Hey Mick - it was an "Eldon standard enclosure 400 x 400 x 210".

Got it from ebay seller 007csl whom, I believe, must have got it as factory seconds or something as it was $22. Usually see them for $100+ so it was probably the best bargain of the build.

At that time he would get a bunch in to sell every few weeks and they'd go fairly quick... He didn't always have items to sell.

Unless you're omitting a lot of the items, you'll want at least a 400x400x210mm (16x16x8") enclosure. Otherwise it will be *very* hard to fit everything in. That said, there's a lot of "fluff" in the EB style builds (admittedly pretty fluff!), and lots can be cut out w/o compromising functionality (eg - logo, volt/amp meter, timer, alarm + alarm on/off switches, some of the indicators, etc). So work out what you might like to see in the panel, and it should give you an idea of the panel size requirement. Always better to have more room than not.

Good luck

 

[_Mick_]

Awesome, Thanks.

I do like the 'fluff' and if im going to build it, I may aswell include all the fluffy bits that i will probably want in the future anyway...
The only thing I may omit would be the third PID for the BK, I like boiling with gas rather than elec.

Cheers!

 

[mofox1]

Last bits done.

Sliding pump rack. Slides all the way under when not in use, and the tray can be inverted so that the pumps drain.

And the finished rig:

Test run - I think I was pre-heating the HLT for the PID auto-tune:

Massively happy with the 5500w elements - I was getting 1*C rise every ~50sec with 55L water in the HLT.

Now - start brewing!

 

[spog]

Excellent setup, the sliding pump tray is a fantastic idea, well done .

 

[Mikeyr]

I have the same bench, only I left the wheels on .... this of course now a blueprint, what a sensational set up, fantastic attention to detail on the cabling!

Also that pump set up is awesome, been trying to think of the best way to attach mine to the bench and still be able to drain!

 

[mofox1]

I have the same bench, only I left the wheels on .... this of course now a blueprint, what a sensational set up, fantastic attention to detail on the cabling!

Also that pump set up is awesome, been trying to think of the best way to attach mine to the bench and still be able to drain!

Never had wheels on mine - it was a handy imports jobby. Had to lop about 10cm off the legs to get it down to a good brewing height (800mm). Previously the top of the pots was around shoulder level, which was rather awkward and caused at least one decent burn...

I was trying to work out what to do with the pumps for a while, as I enjoyed the freedom of having them "loose" for a few months. I had considered quick release style pins/bolts and a tipping tray until I thought of a sliding/removable tray. Was going to add some stops to prevent it from pulling out (phrasing?!) but have discovered it is not necessary.

 

[dannymars]

How much roughly did this build set you back?

 

[mofox1]

How much roughly did this build set you back?

Probably good terms with the missus, followed by sobriety and the subsequent grey matter something potato.

As for dollars, not sure. I kept tabs on all the purchases, but not sure I want to hit the total button anymore! I may end up posting it. Or not.

 

[mofox1]

Managed a brew on the weekend - aaaand... it went okay.

Put down two cubes of the Electric Brewery's 'Electric Pale Ale', with additional cube hops (basically this adjusted for no-chill). Cube 1 got an extra 50g of Chinook, cube 2 got the same in Jarlyllo. Will do the 0min additions as a mini-boil later.

Absolutely no issues with the new control panel, works like a dream and couldn't be happier. The elements are great - had to back the heat off the boil because the 56L pre-boil was about to boil over my 90L pots!! And this is w/o the foam mat I used to wrap around the pot with my 15A element.

What I did get was a stuck recirc. Probably let the little guy have too much fun with the crush. Drill speed was way to high, and I ended up with lots of flour, and very little in the way of intact husks.

I found a *heap* of dough-balls and spent about 15mins trying to break them apart - I think I need to re-think my approach to mashing in... instead of adding grains scoop by scoop to a filled mash tun, I just underlet the whole amount without stirring. That and the fact it was half flour.... derp.

It's possible I need a better manifold/false bottom on the esky - but haven't had any issues like this before. All prior recirc has only happened after the full sac rest... so it's also possible that the manifold (braided SS hose) doesn't handle the starchy conditions at the start of mash very well.

Anyway - other than a very long brew day, I filled two cubes with beautifully clear wort, got an extra 4 points on the OG than estimated and got to play with the new toys.

Happy as Larry (Leffer).

 

[Nizmoose]

Apocalyptically jealous of that entire setup.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Mick fantastic work, super neat looks like a robot built it =D

That boil looks nice and strong, I'm looking at a 3600W + 2400W potentially for my kettle, but had a thought of integrating a potentiometer controlled SSR for the kettle elements to tune it down if I was boiling a single batch for example. What are your thoughts could that fit in easy enough with one of these control panels?

 

[mofox1]

Thanks mate!

Controlled by a PID, you'll be able to set a duty cycle to the elements. Will amount to the same thing as the variable SSR when the period is short enough (few seconds or so).

This would be easier if you've got a 32a supply but will also work with two 15a... would make the guts of the box a bit messier though.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Is that duty control pulse width modulation or an agricultural method similar to it? It'd be nice to have a fixed boil off for singles, doubles and triples to make recipe calcs and repeatability easier

Think I can get 32A total to my garage (confirming this weekend) which may be challenging for 2x 3600W

 

[MastersBrewery]

Is that duty control pulse width modulation or an agricultural method similar to it? It'd be nice to have a fixed boil off for singles, doubles and triples to make recipe calcs and repeatability easier

Think I can get 32A total to my garage (confirming this weekend) which may be challenging for 2x 3600W

Hey you have a whole 2amps to spare for pumps and control piece of cake.

I'm naughty I run 2 2400w over 2 circuits(10amp each) with pump and control (brauduino) I guessing but I recon I might be 1.5 amps short on the supply side. Both cables are rated for 15amps with standard plugs and more than 5m long. Now I've used this for just on a year in two houses and haven't noticed anything even get warm.

32amps should get you real close. Good luck with it.

 

[mofox1]

Yeah - I'd rather have a few amps "in reserve"... I had to turn a 70L boil down to 80% (with a 5.5kW element) on the weekend because it kept threatening to boil over... you'd be good with the 6kW total.

As for the boil off - I run the elements at 100% after the hot break has settled down. Boil off is fairly much a constant - I get 5.5L/hr from a 48m(?) dia pot regardless of whether it is at 70L or 20L. Heh. Once I worked out it was 5.5L/hr and not 5L/hr as per my first rough guesses I stopped being short on the cube fills.

Open offer to come have a look at the rig on a weekend if you want.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Hey you have a whole 2amps to spare for pumps and control piece of cake.

I'm naughty I run 2 2400w over 2 circuits(10amp each) with pump and control (brauduino) I guessing but I recon I might be 1.5 amps short on the supply side. Both cables are rated for 15amps with standard plugs and more than 5m long. Now I've used this for just on a year in two houses and haven't noticed anything even get warm.

32amps should get you real close. Good luck with it.

Well, I have a PC, sound system, fermenting freezer etc also to run, so thinking 2x15A elements in the kettle may be cutting it a bit fine. Sure I can turn fermenting fridge off for boil duration, but sound system? Hell no I need my brewing tracks pumpin`! I do have a 10A point detached from the garage I could run extension from, but gets messy turning everything off and switching to that for every brew day.

Yeah - I'd rather have a few amps "in reserve"... I had to turn a 70L boil down to 80% (with a 5.5kW element) on the weekend because it kept threatening to boil over... you'd be good with the 6kW total.

As for the boil off - I run the elements at 100% after the hot break has settled down. Boil off is fairly much a constant - I get 5.5L/hr from a 48m(?) dia pot regardless of whether it is at 70L or 20L. Heh. Once I worked out it was 5.5L/hr and not 5L/hr as per my first rough guesses I stopped being short on the cube fills.

Open offer to come have a look at the rig on a weekend if you want.

My electrician reckons it's OK to run pretty consistently at near full load, because it's not doing this 24/7, but really at most once a week, but likely once or twice a month each brew day. What size kettle you got? I saw 7200W (3x 2.4kW) boil 40L in an 80L kettle and it got close during hot break stage of the boil but still had a couple inches, we did turn one element off for a minute or so. I like the idea of a potentiometer dial to tune it up/down accordingly, but flicking a switch manually just to get past hot break stage is also OK.

I was reading a great post by Thirsty Boy here (http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/56205-element-sizing-for-electric-kettle/) which simplifies the thermodynamic theory on boil off rate with electric elements, obviously assuming no losses.

So your 5.5kW gives you in reality 5.5 L/hr? Theoretically you should be 8.8L/hr, is your kettle insulated? That's like 37% losses, so I assume it is uninsulated which is how I was planning on going. Working from that it means for double batches I can achieve a bit more than 10% boil off (12.2%) and for triples it falls just short at 8.5%, over the one hour boil (probably could counter for pilsners etc by doing a 2 hr boil).

Seems perhaps the 1x 3.6kW and 1x 2.4kW in my kettle would be about right and not come too close to my 32A total. Going 2x 3.6kW will allow me to get 10% boil off for triples but I would brew them the least I think, plus causes issues on the power supply side.


Wouldn't mind checking out the rig mate thanks for the offer, will PM you

PS. Sorry for the hijack, this is about YOUR lovely control panel!!

 

[MastersBrewery]

Last weekend I had 70l in the kettle, no insulation, and to me it didnt seem like excessive time to get to the boil, the pid on the controller was actually holding it back. All on 4800w total. What brewlegth you chasing DJ?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Hows your boil off rate though and whats it look like when boiling 70L on 4800W?

Not chasing a time specifically, more wanting to buy the right size once given im replacing 2200W KK original version elements.

Timing to heat 50C to strike with my RIMS in the MLT and then from 50C to sparge in the HLT and 1x 2.4kW and 1x 3.6kW in the kettle seems most flexible and reasonable time to ramp, similar to what i was getting with my BIAB gas rig

 

[MastersBrewery]

The boil was rolling well and like I said was held back by PID set to 99.5 (elevation I think playing a roll) boil off was around 15-20% in a 450mm pot (CB100L) I think the 6kw would serve you well. If I had the circuits available here I'd go that way. Have you picked out the elements you will be using, I'm considering the 5 star ones, but I think this next project might be some time in the works. With automated controls wait time for ramping to strike or boil is just a chance to get stuff ready for the next step in the process, so not something I've ever been too concerned with.
As always too much power is barely enough!!