First No-Chill. What to do with hops...

[VP Brewing]

Hi All.
I have an ESB in the fermenter which is taking a bit longer than expected to finish and I want to brew this weekend so I'm thinking about using a cube. It's my sweet 16th AG brew and I normally chill. The only thing I'm not sure about is the hop additions. I know that the cube hops are essentially the 20 min additions but what about 10 and 0 min?
Here's the recipe if any NoChill experts can offer an opinion on what I should do it would be great.
Should be roughly 35IBU.

55% Marris Otter
20% Munich 1
20% Rye
5% Caramunich

15g each Victoria & cascade @ 20m
20g vic and cascade @ 10m
30g vic and cascade @ 0min.

Thanks heaps.
Paul

Edit: I've got loads of citra, centennial, and Amarillo in the freezer to if they would be better

 

[jonnir]

What i've done is been using the KISS method. I was trying to work out all these adjustments but in the end i've been happy with this.

60 min = As per normal
20 min and < = Cube hop
0 min = Dry hop

I've only done this my last 3 brews and i've been quite happy.

 

[mosto]

You could possibly put the 20 min in at whirlpool, then the 10 and 0 additions into the cube.

 

[VP Brewing]

Ok I might go 25g each of cascade and Victoria in the cube then the rest dry hop when I put the wort in the fermenter. Will only be in the cube a couple of days.

 

[Bribie G]

Ten minute and flame out additions can be done at the same time as you pitch the wort. If you slightly adjust the recipe to give yourself an extra litre of wort, store that in a sterile bottle or jar. Then heat that up in a pan, add your ten minute or flame out addition then strain wort out, cool and add to fermenter.

That way, basically just the earlier hops end up in the cube and the aroma hops bypass the cube altogether.

 

[Yob]

Aroma hops go in the cube.. Job done.

 

[panspermian]

I'm interested in this thread as I plan on doing this myself in the near future.
If I were to cook a Scottish Light which calls for 1 hop addition at 60mins, should I stick to the recipe or add it at a later time?

 

[Blind Dog]

Agree with Yob

I'd go 15g of vic and cascade at flameout, let sit for a while, whirlpool, let temp drop to 85 or so and then run off into a sanitised cube (starsanned followed by a boiling water rinse) with the rest of the hops, squeeze as much air out as possible and then seal it up tight. I'd only dry hop if it needed it.

 

[Blind Dog]

I'm interested in this thread as I plan on doing this myself in the near future.
If I were to cook a Scottish Light which calls for 1 hop addition at 60mins, should I stick to the recipe or add it at a later time?

IMO, keep it at 60. IMO, no chill only really seems to affect additions with 30 min or less to go.

 

[VP Brewing]

It's going to be 41 here in nth vic this weekend so it might not get below 85 in my shed but I'll try it anyways. Thanks Yob and Blind Dog. 15g of both at flame out and the rest in the cube sounds good.

 

[jonnir]

Agree with Yob

I'd go 15g of vic and cascade at flameout, let sit for a while, whirlpool, let temp drop to 85 or so and then run off into a sanitised cube (starsanned followed by a boiling water rinse) with the rest of the hops, squeeze as much air out as possible and then seal it up tight. I'd only dry hop if it needed it.

Tell me with something with this plan of attack. How long does it take to cool to 85 roughly? I thought the purpose of no chill was to add the wort and just about boiling.

I pretty much flame out, whirlpool and let it spin around for about 2 minutes and start draining the wort straight out.

I know everyones approach is different, just wanting to learn

Cheers

Jon

 

[Yob]

I'll generally leave for over 20 minutes at whirlpool, so as not to collect break, as to how long to get below 80, depends on a number of factors, ambient temperature being a big one so can vary from brew to brew, as I generally only aim for about 1/3 total IBU from the kettle, it doesn't seem to matter.

 

[VP Brewing]

I fear change

 

[brewermp]

What i've done is been using the KISS method. I was trying to work out all these adjustments but in the end i've been happy with this.

60 min = As per normal
20 min and < = Cube hop
0 min = Dry hop

I've only done this my last 3 brews and i've been quite happy.

This is awesome! Def going to use this method.

 

[Midnight Brew]

I found that calculating a cube addition as a 20min boil addition was not getting the bitterness required, I too get majority of my bitterness from cube additions.

This thread hit spot on why it wasnt happening:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/81226-calculation-of-ibu-additions-after-flame-out-no-chillwhirlpool/

Changed the way the bitterness was calculated and put it in my software as a 20min steep addition.

Bitterness is now spot on with that same flavour profile that I love. To me the cube addition is more about flavour and dont get me wrong you get some wonderful aroma too, however I still like a dry hop or a keg hop.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Keep it uber simple.

My cube hops go in the fermenter and wort goes in. I treat them as a 20min addition and in the case of an IPA, I treat it as an all in single addition. Works for me.

Of course, I have an entirely different method for beers that are more focused on the early bittering additions like British bitters. But for hoppy American style beers, one massive cube hop addition works a treat.

 

[Blind Dog]

I found that calculating a cube addition as a 20min boil addition was not getting the bitterness required, I too get majority of my bitterness from cube additions.

This thread hit spot on why it wasnt happening:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/81226-calculation-of-ibu-additions-after-flame-out-no-chillwhirlpool/

Changed the way the bitterness was calculated and put it in my software as a 20min steep addition.

Bitterness is now spot on with that same flavour profile that I love. To me the cube addition is more about flavour and dont get me wrong you get some wonderful aroma too, however I still like a dry hop or a keg hop.

Agree. I use 15 min boil for flameout additions and 20 min steep for cube additions, but I do let the wort cool to 85 or so before transfer. Hoppy styles are mainly these additions with a small, say 10 IBU max, from a FWH additions. I find the flameout hops plus cube hops hits my sweet spot for apas, IPAs etc. dry hops or keg hops only if the taste is lacking without

(Edit: clarity)

 

[Blind Dog]

Tell me with something with this plan of attack. How long does it take to cool to 85 roughly? I thought the purpose of no chill was to add the wort and just about boiling.

I pretty much flame out, whirlpool and let it spin around for about 2 minutes and start draining the wort straight out.

I know everyones approach is different, just wanting to learn

Cheers

Jon

Like many others, I whirlpool and let the hot break, hop material etc settle before transfer to the cube. It's usually 15 to 20 minutes or so in a 20l BM, but I'd expect each system to act differently.

I think the original idea of transferring at near boiling was to sanitise the cube, but I prefer to sanitise the cube with starsan and a boiling water rinse. I haven't yet read anything to suggest wort at 85C or so is significantly less effective at killing bugs in the cube than wort closer to 100C, but feel safer with my regime

 

[bigmacthepunker]

I cubed a Vienna Citra smash two weeks ago. 20 grams of Citra went into the cube. It will have been in there a month before getting it into the FV. Will this cause any issues in the likes of grassy flavours.

 

[Tahoose]

Shouldn't do..