First lager seems to have been a disaster - is it worth it?

[Reman]

There's a few styles like Marzen, Bocks and Schwarzbiers that I really like. They are much harder to brew than ales, but that's the challenge.

I use the Brulosphy fast lager method and it works well and like Dans I'll pretty much only do them during winter when the temperatures suit.

For mine I also used S-189 which can probably take ale temperatures, which you might find helpful.

 

[Seeker]

The story so far...

Last week I transferred the keg and bottles to my fermetation fridge at 20c in the hope it would get rid of sickliness i guessed was diacetyl. Transferred back to keg fridge after maybe 7 days, and tasted after about 24 and still horrible, that's when I started this thread.

Update:

Well I just tested a bottle and a keg sample - not yet done any buggering about with them yet like repitching.

It's got MUCH better in the last few days in the keg fridge. Not sure why as I expected the higher temperature to either fix the problem while at 20c or not fix at all, I didn't expect days in the cold to improve it, but it seems to have.

90% of the sickliness has gone and it's definitely drinkable now - not professional quality but it's ok.

It's still got a heavy body - maybe a bit too thick so maybe I mashed a bit too high?
It's also got a slight honey taste which I guess from reading is pentanedione - is this likely to reduce with time in the keg fridge or should I raise the temperature again?

It's currently sat at about 8c which is how I server ales, I'll drop it to 2c when this lager come right.


I think I may have been saved by the fact the lagering temp had to be 8c to match my ale serving temp - I know that's too high, but maybe that stopped the yeast falling out and snoozing off?

 

[galactaphonic]

I've only recently started doing lagers (and all grain too for that matter) and I thought I'd share my experiences FWIW.

The first three lagers (which were all extract) I made had a ridiculous amount of apple-y flavour - even though I had pitched huge amounts of yeast - each beer on the cake of the preceding one. Definitely not worth the extra effort.

For my fourth attempt I changed two things - the yeast from Mangrove Jacks Bohemian Lager (which I think is meant to be the same as WLP830 so should be foolproof) to the Wyeast Danish Lager - and I oxygenated using an aquarium pump and airstone. This beer turned out well.

My fifth attempt was my first all grain beer - a german style pilsner with Riwaka hops using Jamil's pilsner hopping schedule - and it is quite simply the best beer I have ever made. So I would say it is worth persevering with making lagers.

So to my mind the two things that have made a good lager for me are a big pitch of yeast and plenty of aeration/oxygenation (and temperature control of course).

A few other observations - I think you mashed too high for a pilsner - I've been mashing at 64C and that seems to work well. I'm thinking of trying a higher temp for a helles I'm working on. I've also been fermenting the lagers for a very long time - 4 weeks at 9C and 4 weeks at 0C - might be over doing it but the primary fermentation seems to go forever.

Also I have a festbier in the fermentation fridge getting ready for xmas that I fermented with wlp833 and its gone from 1.060 to 1.004!!! To state the obvious, I think lagers are all about nailing the fermentation.

Edit: Have also been thinking about using Tasty McD's lager fermentation schedule for quicker results.

 

[droid]

100% pils masher @ 64 for 90- the last brew was a step but haven't tried it yet (thx Grant)

type of yeast will determine a large % of the flavour and finish, since everything is so one dimensional

lagers...more yeast, lower temp

smoother beer

higher maintenance = higher cost makes ****'n nice beer tho no doubt

 

[Futur]

I don't get the mash low advice. Bo Pils is not a dry thin beer, it's a fine balance between malty goodness and a high hop bitterness with a fair bit of body. 67 or even a bit higher for a single infusion mash should be absolutely fine.

100% agree - I've done half a dozen lagers now at 67 single infusion with no problems whatsoever. It's even what Jamil recommends for many of his lagers!