First Extract

[brianman]

Hi Guys

Trying my first extract,

1.7kg Coopers LLME
1kg Dex
0.25kg Corn
0.25kg LDME
0.2kg Crystal
0.1kg Honey
0.05kg Cane Sugar
15g Amarillo 60mins
15g Amarillo 45mins
20g Cascade 15mins

Brewers notes said Coopers Pale Ale Can boiled with honey <_< , i bought a 1.5kg Blk Rock LLME can, with that will it still be ok, how much water in the steep since only 200g crystal.
Must seem a stoopid question, isn't there a difference between LLME and a can of hopped goop.
Cheers guys, love the gossip, gotta go 1/2 time footy.

Briby

 

[Bribie G]

Hi Briby

Corn ? <_<


What sort of corn and what do you intend doing with it? Corn such as flaked maize needs to be mashed with grain malts to break down the corn starch to fermentable sugars, not suitable in an extract recipe.

If you mean corn syrup, i.e. maltodextrin, it doesn't do much for the brew except make it creamy, you would be better off steeping 300g Carapils .. a sort of blonde version of crystal, steep it in with the crystal for added head retention and body.

Sounds like a nice APA type recipe, what yeast? Suggest US-05 and ferment below 20.

 

[brianman]

Hi Briby

Corn ? <_<


What sort of corn and what do you intend doing with it? Corn such as flaked maize needs to be mashed with grain malts to break down the corn starch to fermentable sugars, not suitable in an extract recipe.

If you mean corn syrup, i.e. maltodextrin, it doesn't do much for the brew except make it creamy, you would be better off steeping 300g Carapils .. a sort of blonde version of crystal, steep it in with the crystal for added head retention and body.

Sounds like a nice APA type recipe, what yeast? Suggest US-05 and ferment below 20.

thanks bribie, corn syrup, was going to ask about dropping it, just happen to have some carapils in the brew cupboard, using US-05, sorry to ask again, but how much water & could i add the fermentables in the pot. At the end of the boil.

 

[manticle]

thanks bribie, corn syrup, was going to ask about dropping it, just happen to have some carapils in the brew cupboard, using US-05, sorry to ask again, but how much water & could i add the fermentables in the pot. At the end of the boil.

I don't think the amount of water for steeping is as important but with the last couple of partials I've done I've been working with 2.5 x 1 (litres of water to kilos of grain). I guess getting those ratios working now is a good idea for the future.

Once it's steeped, rinse through a colander or sieve with hot water into another pot several times and boil the liquid up, adding hops according to your schedule. You can add the fermentables in to dissolve at any point but I tend to put them in around 10 minutes before the end. Less stuff to potentially burn and stick to the bottom and there's no benefit to boiling for the full time as far as I'm aware.

Someone else may suggest differently. If they do I'd take their advice over mine. I still have L plates on.

 

[Gavo]

If adding the rest of the fermentables to the pot when doing extract or partials, I only ever added them at the end of the boil to dissolve them easier. If you add them earlier you will miss out on some of the hop extraction.


Cheers
Gavo.

 

[manticle]

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

Good article on steeping grains.

 

[brianman]

If adding the rest of the fermentables to the pot when doing extract or partials, I only ever added them at the end of the boil to dissolve them easier. If you add them earlier you will miss out on some of the hop extraction.


Cheers
Gavo.

Thanks Gavo, i did my running sheet today, (before going to bed, night shift at the moment,) so i don't forget anything and had changed to adding fermentables at the end. Got one of your recipes to do very soon, can't remember which one. Thanks again for info. Edit since about to start boiling, how much of the dex. could i replace. With malt grain
Briby

 

[brianman]

I don't think the amount of water for steeping is as important but with the last couple of partials I've done I've been working with 2.5 x 1 (litres of water to kilos of grain). I guess getting those ratios working now is a good idea for the future.

Once it's steeped, rinse through a colander or sieve with hot water into another pot several times and boil the liquid up, adding hops according to your schedule. You can add the fermentables in to dissolve at any point but I tend to put them in around 10 minutes before the end. Less stuff to potentially burn and stick to the bottom and there's no benefit to boiling for the full time as far as I'm aware.

Someone else may suggest differently. If they do I'd take their advice over mine. I still have L plates on.

Thanks manticle, If i replace the dex or part of with malt grain do you steep malt grain as long as the specialty grains. \cheers briby

 

[Gavo]

Briby

If you replace the dex with malt grain then you would be in partail territory and will need to mash the grain. You could replace the dex with LDME and replace the sugar also.
What can/cans are you using? Is it the 1.7kg Coopers or 1.5kg blackrock or both? What are you shooting for?

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[Gavo]

Briby
I put this though beersmith. I dropped the corn syrup, cane sugar and dex. I have put the honey in for the full duration of the boil, be warned though I have never used honey so I have no idea of the result.

Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 4.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 13.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 33.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 kg Light Dry Extract (10.0 EBC) Dry Extract 32.79 %
0.25 kg Light Dry Extract (10.0 EBC) Dry Extract 8.20 %
1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract (15.8 EBC) Extract 49.18 %
0.20 kg Crystal Malt Pale (78.8 EBC) Grain 6.56 %
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 16.0 IBU
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (45 min) Hops 14.3 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] (15 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
0.10 kg Honey (2.0 EBC) Sugar 3.28 %
1 Pkgs SafAle US 05 (Fermentis) [Starter 50 ml] [Yeast-Ale

ABV 4.4% approx.

You could drop the 45 min hop addition and up the 60 min addition to 28grams for the same bittering. 'Orses for courses of course.

Hope this helps out.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[brianman]

Briby

If you replace the dex with malt grain then you would be in partail territory and will need to mash the grain. You could replace the dex with LDME and replace the sugar also.
What can/cans are you using? Is it the 1.7kg Coopers or 1.5kg blackrock or both? What are you shooting for?

Cheers
Gavo.

Thanks Gavo

Got some recipes for partials & extracts, so i figured i might head that way, still got 1kg dex to get rid of. The recipe, only K&k i got off Db,said Coopers LLME, brewers quotes said Coopers PA can. But i bought Blk Rock LLME. just after a nice PA.Don't want too much bitterness and the ABV is where i would want it, like drinking beer, not the after effects from drinking too much. Why the 2 additions of DME.

Cheers & thanks for thoughts
Briby

 

[Gavo]

The smaller addition is to go into the boil with the liquid from the grain in order to help with hop extraction. You would note that I have set beersmith to a 4 lt boil... so the liquid from the grain plus the smaller addition of LDME will give a preboil gravity of around 1040.

Keep the Dex for priming, I cringe at the though of using it in the brew these days.

This APA here is quite tast and not overly bitter. B) You could drop a little of the malt to drop the alc a bit and just drop a couple of grams at the bittering addition to re-balance it.

Cheers
Gavo

 

[brianman]

The smaller addition is to go into the boil with the liquid from the grain in order to help with hop extraction. You would note that I have set beersmith to a 4 lt boil... so the liquid from the grain plus the smaller addition of LDME will give a preboil gravity of around 1040.

Keep the Dex for priming, I cringe at the though of using it in the brew these days.

This APA here is quite tast and not overly bitter. B) You could drop a little of the malt to drop the alc a bit and just drop a couple of grams at the bittering addition to re-balance it.

Cheers
Gavo

Thanks Gavo, understand now about the smaller addition, seen it a few times on recipes. Yeah i now know a bit more from the last few days on here, i'll slowly get rid of the dex. I have your simple APA & your Dogwood EKG downloaded, so will be going up to Grape & Grain this week to stock up on some bulk items. I'll brew this first since already got ingredients, then give partial a try. By the way, does bottle condition for 7 days mean it's alright to drink, or should i still leave extract & partials for 8-12 weeks.

Cheers & thanks heaps, helps with confidence

Briby

 

[manticle]

Thanks manticle, If i replace the dex or part of with malt grain do you steep malt grain as long as the specialty grains. \cheers briby

The following comes with a disclaimer: I could be wrong.

However my understanding is as follows:

All grains you are using as a replacement for dex (a fermentable sugar) will need to be malted as unmalted grains will not add fermentable sugar. You can use unmalted grains for flavour.

Some malted grains (usually the longer roasted ones) can simply be cracked and steeped in order to extract the sugar.

Other malted grains (less roasted) need to be mashed. Mashing is very similar to hot steeping (can also do cold steeping but not cold mashing) BUT

1. The temperature is more crucial.
2. The water to grain ratio is more crucial
3. The sparging (grain rinsing) is more crucial

There are many more very technical aspects of mashing that I don't yet understand but a basic mash can be done quite easily, particularly if you are using extracts to bring your OG to the appropriate point.

I hope that's clear. It's all info gleaned from here and Palmer's how to brew over the last few months and I'm still learning (and stuffing up) at a phenomenal rate.

At the end of last year I was a kit and kilo from Kmart man (kkk brewer).

 

[manticle]

PS: as Gavo says - use the dex for priming. It won't go off and it does have its uses. I've moved away from using such things in my primaries though.

 

[brianman]

PS: as Gavo says - use the dex for priming. It won't go off and it does have its uses. I've moved away from using such things in my primaries though.

Thanks Mant, trying to get my thick head around everything without stuffing up to much, a bloke on my shift been brewing K&K for 15yrs 1/2 kg sugar , in every one, says there's no badn's, they just taste different.

Cheers and thanks Briby

 

[buttersd70]

there's no badn's, they just taste different.

Puss from an octogenarians urinary tract infection also tastes "different". Doesn't meand I'd want to drink it, though....

 

[manticle]

Try not to worry too much about the amazing amount of technical information available.

It can be overwhelming unless you take it in steps. As I said earlier - a few months ago I was buying kits from k-mart and throwing in Brew Enhancer, Brigalow finishing hops and priming with carbonation drops. I made some good beers (fairly dependent on kit but not all are rubbish) but now I'm doing extracts and partials and my beers have improved one-hundred fold. I'm fairly certain the sky is the limit.

If you're happy (happy not satisfied) with the beer you get from your favourite kit, there are very simple steps you can take to improve.

If you think the improvement is worth it, you can take the next step.

Etc etc.

To make a kit/extract beer really damn good (much better than straight kit and kilo)

1. Different yeast
2. Hops additions
3. Grain steeping (optional but worth it)
4. temp control
4. Patience
5. Racking to secondary vessel (piece of piss)
5 Appropriate priming levels.
6. More patience

Sounds like you're more than halfway there already.

 

[manticle]

NB:

Replace 'good' with 'not bilge'.

Coopers stout and a couple of coopers dark ales KK came out reasonably close to store bought versions and were up to 'giving away to friends' standards.

 

[brianman]

Puss from an octogenarians urinary tract infection also tastes "different". Doesn't meand I'd want to drink it, though....

Your right there butters, had quite a few of his beers and no signs of kinky sugar after tastes.