American Red IPA

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Chris79

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G'day,

Looking to brew a beer in a few weeks to have put on tap, at our roastery.

I'm going to brew for the guys an American Red IPA. I have downloaded the BJCP style guide 2015.

I was thinking of using an Coopers Amber ale can as my base, and to provide some of the crystal malt colour/flavour I'm hoping for.

Using Ian's spreadsheet, and doing some recipe research I've come up with the following:

Coopers Amber ale 1.7kg
Pale ale malt 3kg
CaraRed 200g
Caramunich II 200g
Dextrose 750g
Azacca 15g @ 60min (17.35 IBU's)
Cascade 20g @ 60min (15.12 IBU's)
Azacca 5g @ 15min (2.7 IBU's)
Cascade 10g @ 15min (3.75 IBU's)
Yeast - US-05

OG 1.058, FG 1.011, IBU 67 ECB 31 ABV 6.3

Some questions, to improve the malt character of this beer what's the best move re base grains. Just a pale ale or a pale ale and maybe a kg of amber? Comments on the specialty grains? To say Cascade is an aromatic hop, does that mean it's mean to be added in the last 15 min of the boil? Would it be cool to dry hop with both? I am thinking of doing that.

Cheers
 

stewy

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You are already looking at mashing 3kgs of base malt.. Are you limited by size?

I wouldn't use the Amber. Stick with Pale Ale & get the colour from specialty grains
If you mash 3kgs of pale ale malt I would go for Marris Otter & also add some Munich
As for specialty grains instead of carared/caramunich II, I would do something like this:
350g Light Crystal
175g Dark Crystal
90g Pale Choc
This will give you the colour you are after. The carared & caramunich II are quite similar & can be sweet, probably better suited to an Irish Red than a Red IPA. I would drop the dextrose altogether.

If you want this to be an IPA you need to significantly up your late hop additions & consider dry hopping.
I'm not familiar with Azacca, but I love Cascade. I would put 30g at 15mins, 60g at 5 mins & also dry hop at 3G/L
 

Chris79

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Thanks for the reply. No I'm not limited by size. I have a 19ltr pot.

I'll look at re doing the recipe today without the amber can. I'll revise with something like those base and spec malts. The reason I didn't add a lot of hops was due to what the Coopers can already gave me, so not a lot more hops were needed.

But appreciate the feedback, I'll revise and repost later today!
 

stewy

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Chris79 said:
Thanks for the reply. No I'm not limited by size. I have a 19ltr pot.

I'll look at re doing the recipe today without the amber can. I'll revise with something like those base and spec malts. The reason I didn't add a lot of hops was due to what the Coopers can already gave me, so not a lot more hops were needed.

But appreciate the feedback, I'll revise and repost later today!
//

Okay... I used to use the 19L pot.
I would mash the maximum you can in it with a combo of Marris Otter & Munich, then steep the specialty malts separately (to maximise amount of base you can mash), combine the lot for your boil.

Do your hop schedule to get you into your desired IBU range... Maximise your late hops to 10mins & less. Also a nice big dry hop will help.

If you are a big fan of the style, one of the best beers I have ever brewed was the Jamil Evil Twin clone that uses Citra (google it). I highly recommend you give that one a crack in the future!

Good luck
 

Chris79

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I really like that colour gigantorus. If I used Red X, maybe I wouldn't need the small amt of choc grain.

Revised my recipe. For now, with out Red X:

2kg Maris Otter
1kg Pale Ale
2kg pale DME
350g pale crystal
175g dark crystal
90g pale choc

OG 1.058, FG 1.014

I'm just undecided on hops, as was looking at two diff suppliers. Looks I might go National home brewers, giving me the option for the Red X if I want to go ahead. But looks like their currently out of Citra and Chinnook which I was going to use. Think I'll email them.

Comments on the grain bill?
 

Gigantorus

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Chaps,

My Irish Red Ale recipe is attached so you can gain an understanding how much I used of everything to get that colour etc. The Red X Malt really doesn't have much flavour to it - just gives colour. So you can use this well with other more flavoursome Malts.

I really made this for my Father-in-law, who is old world and likes the English yeast ales. But I've come to quite like this brew and you can have a couple at 4.6% and still function.

Next time I do this I might also use Nottingham yeast in stead of English (S-04).

I bottled the current brew back on 9 July and it's just starting to taste nice now. Everything is just mellowed out nicely and the carbonation and head retention is excellent.

Cheers,

Pete

View attachment Red-Setter-Irish-Red-Ale-Recipe-BF-2016.pdf
 

Gigantorus

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Chris79 said:
I really like that colour gigantorus. If I used Red X, maybe I wouldn't need the small amt of choc grain.

Revised my recipe. For now, with out Red X:

2kg Maris Otter
1kg Pale Ale
2kg pale DME
350g pale crystal
175g dark crystal
90g pale choc

OG 1.058, FG 1.014

I'm just undecided on hops, as was looking at two diff suppliers. Looks I might go National home brewers, giving me the option for the Red X if I want to go ahead. But looks like their currently out of Citra and Chinnook which I was going to use. Think I'll email them.

Comments on the grain bill?
The Red X is great. Give it a go.

Re hops. I love Perle in these Euro brews. I like the floral and spicy flavour it gives. The other euro hop I like is the Mandarina Barvaria - another German favourite.

Cheers,

Pete
 

Motabika

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On recommendation from Martin I recently brewed an an red English ipa with this grain bill.


4.5kg Trad ale
250g medium crystal
250g caraaroma

Came out nice and red
 

Chris79

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Gigantorus said:
Chaps,

My Irish Red Ale recipe is attached so you can gain an understanding how much I used of everything to get that colour etc. The Red X Malt really doesn't have much flavour to it - just gives colour. So you can use this well with other more flavoursome Malts.

I really made this for my Father-in-law, who is old world and likes the English yeast ales. But I've come to quite like this brew and you can have a couple at 4.6% and still function.

Next time I do this I might also use Nottingham yeast in stead of English (S-04).

I bottled the current brew back on 9 July and it's just starting to taste nice now. Everything is just mellowed out nicely and the carbonation and head retention is excellent.

Cheers,

Pete
Great. Thanks Pete for passing that on.

I'm happy to use a pale ale and maris otter as the base malt. Should I make it 2kg of pale and 1 of maris? Or the other way round? Any particular malt supplier will work, to keep this in the style of an American red IPA?

Just revisiting what hops I'll use. For now I'm think of Mosaic and either Simcoe/Chinook for bittering/flavour and aroma. And using Cascade for aroma/dry hopping with either Mosaic or Simcoe for dry hopping too. Thoughts on the hop choices to keep in the style of an American IPA.

I'll build the hop schedule next. Prob tomorrow sometime.

Cheers
 

technobabble66

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FWIW, Pale Ale malt & Maris Otter are very similar - both Ale Malts. MO is just a little more malty. I'd just use one or the other.
If you want malty, add some Munich to what you posted above. If you prefer more "caramelly", don't bother, just stick with the crystal.

Also, most of the crystals won't get you a red colour, more of a tan or amber brown. CaraAroma, Roasted Barley or Midnight wheat are more likely to get you there, and RedX will also. Shepherd's Delight might be able to do it as well - haven't brewed with that one yet.
So essentially, i'd suggest picking a single crystal to go with, then select a spec malt to get the red colour from there - whether it's lots of RedX or a bit of those others. Red colour can be a little tricky to hit - estimated colour (EBC) is the best indicator, but still quite hit-&-miss. This is especially so because of the interplay of brown contributing malts and the "red"contributing malts.

Hops wise, all of those hops work in all the permutations of combinations. You can not go wrong with Simcoe or Cascade, and apparently Mosaic. Chinook is a little more particular to individual tastes, but i think it's awesome in combination with any of those others and balances/compliments them particularly well. If pushed, i guess i'd probably go Chinook plus one of the others (Simcoe, i guess) in at FWH and 20 mins; then that "other" plus one more in as dry hops. So maybe Chinook+Simcoe in at FWH/90mins and at 20mins, then Simcoe & Mosaic as dry. Maybe a little of the 3rd one at 20mins also.

2c
Hope that helps!
 

peteru

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Columbus is another hop worth considering.
 

technobabble66

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^+100 to that.
I'd be v tempted to use Columbus or centennial in the mix somewhere. Adds a dank resiny element that also balances/compliments those others well.
So I'd use some somewhere in the boil and dry hop with some also.
Another 2c [emoji6]
 

Gigantorus

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technobabble66 said:
FWIW, Pale Ale malt & Maris Otter are very similar - both Ale Malts. MO is just a little more malty. I'd just use one or the other.
If you want malty, add some Munich to what you posted above. If you prefer more "caramelly", don't bother, just stick with the crystal.

Also, most of the crystals won't get you a red colour, more of a tan or amber brown. CaraAroma, Roasted Barley or Midnight wheat are more likely to get you there, and RedX will also. Shepherd's Delight might be able to do it as well - haven't brewed with that one yet.
So essentially, i'd suggest picking a single crystal to go with, then select a spec malt to get the red colour from there - whether it's lots of RedX or a bit of those others. Red colour can be a little tricky to hit - estimated colour (EBC) is the best indicator, but still quite hit-&-miss. This is especially so because of the interplay of brown contributing malts and the "red"contributing malts.

Hops wise, all of those hops work in all the permutations of combinations. You can not go wrong with Simcoe or Cascade, and apparently Mosaic. Chinook is a little more particular to individual tastes, but i think it's awesome in combination with any of those others and balances/compliments them particularly well. If pushed, i guess i'd probably go Chinook plus one of the others (Simcoe, i guess) in at FWH and 20 mins; then that "other" plus one more in as dry hops. So maybe Chinook+Simcoe in at FWH/90mins and at 20mins, then Simcoe & Mosaic as dry. Maybe a little of the 3rd one at 20mins also.

2c
Hope that helps!
Re Shepherds Delight Malt. I've played with this a lot. But you need to be careful of using too much. If you use too much you get a harsh bitterness from it.

The other red colouring malt to consider is Redback Malt from Gladfield. RedBack Malt gives a lovely malty dried fruit and toasted flavour to the finished beer.

Cheers,
Pete
 

Chris79

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technobabble66 said:
FWIW, Pale Ale malt & Maris Otter are very similar - both Ale Malts. MO is just a little more malty. I'd just use one or the other.
If you want malty, add some Munich to what you posted above. If you prefer more "caramelly", don't bother, just stick with the crystal.

Also, most of the crystals won't get you a red colour, more of a tan or amber brown. CaraAroma, Roasted Barley or Midnight wheat are more likely to get you there, and RedX will also. Shepherd's Delight might be able to do it as well - haven't brewed with that one yet.
So essentially, i'd suggest picking a single crystal to go with, then select a spec malt to get the red colour from there - whether it's lots of RedX or a bit of those others. Red colour can be a little tricky to hit - estimated colour (EBC) is the best indicator, but still quite hit-&-miss. This is especially so because of the interplay of brown contributing malts and the "red"contributing malts.

Hops wise, all of those hops work in all the permutations of combinations. You can not go wrong with Simcoe or Cascade, and apparently Mosaic. Chinook is a little more particular to individual tastes, but i think it's awesome in combination with any of those others and balances/compliments them particularly well. If pushed, i guess i'd probably go Chinook plus one of the others (Simcoe, i guess) in at FWH and 20 mins; then that "other" plus one more in as dry hops. So maybe Chinook+Simcoe in at FWH/90mins and at 20mins, then Simcoe & Mosaic as dry. Maybe a little of the 3rd one at 20mins also.

2c
Hope that helps!
Great. cheers Techno. Really have much to learn about how different grains work together, and what they do in terms of colour and/or flavour. Feel a bit more on track, re base malt and use of crystal and how to get the colour!

Just checking with National home brewer, re availability of some of the hops. Will work a combo of them from there :) Yes I do like the sound of a piney/resiny character of Columbus or Centennial to go with that citrus, tropical flavours.
 

Chris79

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Thanks Pete for the extra recommendation. So apart from Red X. What's your next preferred grain from the ones you've mention to use to get a red colour?

Does Red X add gravity points like a base malt? Wasn't clear on that when I checked that out on National brewers site.

I checked out CaraAroma last night, really liked the sound of that grain.

Cheers
 

Gigantorus

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Chris79 said:
Thanks Pete for the extra recommendation. So apart from Red X. What's your next preferred grain from the ones you've mention to use to get a red colour?

Does Red X add gravity points like a base malt? Wasn't clear on that when I checked that out on National brewers site.

I checked out CaraAroma last night, really liked the sound of that grain.

Cheers
Redback Malt would be my next suggestion for a red colouring malt. http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=5800

Red X: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4920

I get all my grain from Craft Brewer here in Brissy.

Cheers,

Pete
 

Matplat

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I did a red ale using red back and shepards delight, it was awesome.

Here it is:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/19438-whats-in-the-glass/page-389#entry1384994

I used 4% shepards delight and 10% Red back

**** it here's the recipe:

Red Back Amber
American Amber Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.700
Total Hops (g): 60.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.048 (°P): 11.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.72 %
Colour (SRM): 15.7 (EBC): 30.9
Bitterness (IBU): 33.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
3.000 kg Pale Ale Malt (63.83%)
1.000 kg Aurora (21.28%)
0.500 kg Red Back (10.64%)
0.200 kg Shepherd Delight (4.26%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Topaz Pellet (16.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
10.0 g Ella Pellet (15% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Topaz Pellet (16.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Ella Pellet (15% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Topaz Pellet (16.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Danstar BRY-97 West Coast American Ale
 

Chris79

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Thanks Pete. Feel I've got some good grains lined up to produce an amber/red beer. I've been emailing with Martin at National Home Brewer across this week. So I think I should go ahead with him.

Cheers
Chris
 

Chris79

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Hey Malplat, much appreciated on sharing the recipe, and the ratios you used!

I do like an amber ale. Great colour there!

Cheers
 
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