First batch - sediment and bottling

[damoninja]

Hello everyone,

New to the site and brewing - I sealed up my first batch on Saturday, all's going quite well so far, the bad boy has been bubbling quite furiously.

Couple of questions I had around the final stages...

1. I have a lot of sediment, I understand this is normal but how to I approach when bottling? The sediment is probably 2", looks like it covers the tap.

2. How much priming sugar should I use for this type of brew? Standard ounce per gallon?
I do not plan on bottling until I get a static SG for minimum 2 days. I haven't even checked it yet, I assume it's too soon as it's still bubbling like a mofo.


To add context here's my ingredients/setup

Setup:
Basic 30L plastic fermenter
Plastic tap with sediment catcher (apparently)
Stick on external thermometre (reading steady 19-20 degrees)

Recipe (courtesy of Brewcraft SA):
1 x can Black Rock Miner's stout
1kg dark malt extract powder
50g black grain (strained away when poured into fermenter)
35g hop pellets (strained away when poured into fermenter)
15g finishing hops (in tea bag in the fermenter)
Ale Yeast DCL SAFALE S-04 (18-22 degrees preferred temp)
Wort volume of 18L as per the final volume of the recipe I followed


If anything I'm doing / saying is dumb, tell me!

 

[mkstalen]

Sediment:
As the fermenting finishes the yeast will settle down, and from my experience it's unlikely to cover the tap by much (if at all). Assuming you've got your little sediment catcher on the right way (facing up), then the first couple of bottles might have a decent amount of yeast in them, the rest will be better.
Your other option in to rack off to a secondary container and crash chill. This will make even more yeast settle out and compact down so you'll get even less in your bottles.
If you're bulk priming this will help too as you need a bottling bucket which you won't tap all that sediment off into in the first place.

Priming Sugar:
Ounces.. Gallons.. ? Sorry, I'm a metric guy Depends on how carbonated you want your beer.
According to Palmers How To Brew, Volumes of CO2 for a stout are between 1.7-2.3.
So for your 18L you'll need between 60-100g (assuming you're using white sugar)

 

[Alex.Tas]

i'll probably get shut down by somebody else here who without doubt knows more than i do on most things brewing (im still relatively new at this too) for the comment I'm about to make, but this comes from my personal experience

I would use LDME for priming a dark beer such as this. I think it gives smaller, tighter packed bubbles. DDME might work too, but i haven't tried this before.
Few things to note however when using dry malt extract for priming.

1. It doesn't ferment fully like dextrose or table sugar. What this means is that if you use 100g of DME, it will be the equivilent of roughly 70-80g of dextrose.
2. However - DME can be somewhat variable in its fermentability.

If you are priming the bottles individually, perhaps do a few with dex and a few with LDME as a test and report back.

With your fermenter is it one of the newish coopers ones? These have a lid that sits on top and doesn't need to be screwed on?
The taps on these are (IMHO) far too high, and if you have sediment coming above the tap, then you have some issues (the base of the tap is at around 5L from memory).
Not to worry if you do, just do as Steinberg suggests and rack the brew into a secondary fermenter.
Racking is where you transfer the liquid from one vessel to another, with the aim of separating the liquid form the yeast and other trub in your FV.

I highly reccomend having a look at the great spreadsheet put together by Ian H. Look for the sticky thread in the kits and extracts page. You can add in all your ingredients and play around with all sorts of things such as hop additions, boil times and grains. It also helps you calculate the volume of sugar required to prime up your brew to your desired level of carbonation. It also give you style indications too which provides you with an invaluable guide when designing recipes.

Other than that, looks like you seem to be doing well, the recipe looks good too. Good to see you being adventurous on your first batch, good luck!

 

[damoninja]

Thanks for the tips!

I'm bottling into glass (good old pickaxe bottles) so I don't want to over carbonate and kaboom them... plus, an overly fizzy stout doesn't appeal to me.


At this point in time I don't have a secondary to rack to... Things to come.
I don't care if my beer has some sediment in it, it won't ruin my day (as long as it's not 4" in the bottle!).
Regarding the sediment

The sugar that I have is part dextrose, part something else (not at home to check the pack), it's labelled "brewing sugar". I'd like to experiment with the half ME half dex idea but I don't think I'll be able to get ahold another pack in time.

I am priming bottles individually, I don't want to stir up all this sediment by mixing in the sugar. Does this make sense or silly idea?

The fermenter is an older coopers style, the tap is at about the 2L mark, nowhere near that high. It's a screw on lid with a fat replaceable rubber seal.

Regarding the sediment catcher - I have no idea what way it's facing. Maybe I've misrepresented, from memory it's a "Sediment reducing" tap



Thanks heaps for the insights and quick responses

 

[Alex.Tas]

The brewing sugar is probably half ME half dex. That should work fine.
Maybe when you tap the barrel, tap some into a drinking glass to see how it comes out. if the glass is full of sediment then ditch it and repeat till its pretty much just beer. You will loose a bit of beer this way though.
You can get a food grade bucket at bunnings for $10. you can siphon the beer off the sediment into the bucket, then siphon it back into the barrel once you have cleaned the barrel if you wanted to. or you could buy a tap from bunnings too and use a spade bit to cut out a hole to slot in the tap. That will work as a bulk priming vessel instead of buying a fermenter.

 

[damoninja]

Thanks for the hot tip - i'll have to get myself a good siphon too...

Regarding priming sugar quantity, would you say a 750mL priming spoon would suit? Ought to keep quantities fairly consistent?

It's one like this - not exactly this one but I would reckon sizes are faitly standard.
http://www.brewcraftsa.com.au/showProduct/Brewing+Equipment+and+Books/Bottling+Aids/50051/2+PART+PRIMING+SPOON+-+375ml+++750ml

 

[wbosher]

You don't need to rack to a secondary, very few people seem to do that nowadays. You can cc in the primary with no problems.

 

[yum beer]

That sugar scoop will work fine and if your using BE1 then you should find the carb a little on a the lower side because 40% of the 'sugar' is maltodextrin that won't ferment.
If you want to go this way I think BE2 would be even better, 50% dex, 25% LDM and 25% Maltodextrin, should give a nice carb level for a darkie.

 

[MaltyHops]

1. I have a lot of sediment, I understand this is normal but how to I approach when bottling? The sediment is probably 2", looks like it covers the tap.

Unless there's way too much yeast/trub, you could put a wedge under the fermenter below where the tap is, give the fermenter a slight shake so the yeast settles away from the tap and leave a clearance when you're bottling.

 

[damoninja]

Update:
My waterlock has stopped bubbling and presenting a hydrometre reading of approx 1.021. My original gravity was something off my scale, about 1.045 I estimated, my scale only goes to 1.040.
The foam has subsided and bubbling stopped, leaving a few flecks of floaties.

I finished at about midnight on Friday evening, is this an insamely fast brew? I did have it at the optimum temperature for the yeast, and it's still at that temperature.

If I get the same reading tomorrow... Should I be a bottlin'?

Unless there's way too much yeast/trub, you could put a wedge under the fermenter below where the tap is, give the fermenter a slight shake so the yeast settles away from the tap and leave a clearance when you're bottling.

I had in fact thought of this! On closer inspection I think it might be the angle of the fermenter that makes it look like there's more sediment then there actually is. False alarm.

That sugar scoop will work fine and if your using BE1 then you should find the carb a little on a the lower side because 40% of the 'sugar' is maltodextrin that won't ferment.
If you want to go this way I think BE2 would be even better, 50% dex, 25% LDM and 25% Maltodextrin, should give a nice carb level for a darkie.

Turns out the sugar is just dextrose monohydrate (assume the monohydrate is to make it faster?) and sucrose



Mega thanks to everyone for replying quickly with such useful information

 

[JaseH]

I generally prop the front of the fermenter up a little during fermentation so the sediment doesn't cover the tap. I then cold crash in the primary for a couple of days which helps set the sediment firm in the bottom. Then when I'm ready to bottle I rack off the trub/sediment into a spare vessel where I can bulk prime and bottle from there.

 

[damoninja]

I generally prop the front of the fermenter up a little during fermentation so the sediment doesn't cover the tap. I then cold crash in the primary for a couple of days which helps set the sediment firm in the bottom. Then when I'm ready to bottle I rack off the trub/sediment into a spare vessel where I can bulk prime and bottle from there.

Think I'll give this a go next time.


Anyone got any suggestions how much longer I should leave things before I bottle? Eg. 3 days with no SG change?

 

[djar007]

Is the wort clear or milky mate?

 

[JaseH]

I let it go for at least 3-4 days after FG. Better to leave it longer than too short, gives the yeast a chance to clean up. Then I CC for at least another 2 days before kegging or bottling. Generally minimum a good 2 weeks from brew to bottle.

 

[damoninja]

Is the wort clear or milky mate?

It's a stout so it's kinda... Black ;p

I let it go for at least 3-4 days after FG. Better to leave it longer than too short, gives the yeast a chance to clean up. Then I CC for at least another 2 days before kegging or bottling. Generally minimum a good 2 weeks from brew to bottle.

Too easy - I don't mind leaving it longer at all, from what I've read the biggest mistake 1st timers make is bottling too soon and I'm determined to not do this!.

 

[djar007]

It's a stout so it's kinda... Black ;p

Fair enough.

 

[damoninja]

I got a decent hydrometre and a thin flask - thin enough it only requires 70mL to get a reading, so I'm pleased I'll have minimal loss during testing!

Took another test today and I'm still sitting at about 1.021 - my original gravity is certainly way off, I've checked out what other people have reported for similar brews from the same tin I've and similar amounts of other ingredients used and they reported 1.090 even 1.110

And I'm quite amazed at how it's tasting - I simply can't wait until I get 'em bottled and chilled. Pity they won't be ready for the grand final weekend!

As soon as they're bottled I'm cleaning up and starting the next one: Chocolate Redwood ale

 

[damoninja]

Almost forgot to mention - I picked up some dark spray malt for priming...

Anything special I should know about priming with malt vs sugar?

 

[Alex.Tas]

What you are getting now with your hydrometer isn't your OG.

Few terms, some of these have to be taken in their proper context
SG - Specific gravity
SG - Starting gravity - so these can be confusing, but you just need to take them in the context.
OG refers to original gravity
FG - final gravity

Gravity essentially tells us the density of the brew. When you start out you have a liquid (water) with a gravity reading of 1000 at 20 deg C. Then you add sugars to this water in the form of hopped malt tins/DME/Dextrose etc. This increases the volume of the beer, but as some of the sugars are dissolved they make the water more dense. Therefore, when you drop your hydrometer into the liquid, it doesn't sink as far because the liquid is more dense.
if you have ever been swimming in freshwater and saltwater - notice the difference? its the same principal.
When the yeast does it's stuff to your brew, its eating the sugars and turning it into CO2 and alcohol (and other stuff that i wont worry about explaining). The CO2 is what makes your beer bubbly. Because alcohol is lighter than water, this makes the liquid in your barrel less dense (bringing the SG down closer to 1000).
With most brews containing some DME, there is some parts that the yeast can't eat. This gives the beer body. It also means that the beer will finish fermenting with an SG above 1000. Some ciders on the other hand can ferment to below 1000, meaning its less dense than water and theoretically, it could float on water (like in monty python).

so what you are reading now is the specific gravity, the gravity at this point in time. Not your original gravity.

so people may have got 1100 for their OG, but i doubt they would be getting it near the end of their fermentation.

You might be lucky, your beer might be primed for the GF, keep it in a warm spot. Stouts typically dont need heaps of CO2, so not all hope is lost.

Stress less,


Edit:
Malt may slow down your priming time and like mentioned above, may not ferment out fully meaning you dont get as much co2 produced from 100g of malt as you would 100g of dex/sugar

 

[damoninja]

What you are getting now with your hydrometer isn't your OG.

My original gravity was something off my scale, about 1.045 I estimated, my scale only goes to 1.040.

My OG was reported earlier on in the thread and I was pretty sure it was completely wrong because I had a shit hydrometre.
But I understand the process I'm not quite that silly ;P

From what I understand, the DME that I have is 70% fermentable vs sucrose/dextrose. Having taken this into consideration I plan to use a little more than i would regular sugar but not a bucket load.


I have 18 litres, tastybrew's calculator reckons if I keep it around 18 degrees, for a CO2 volume of 1.8 I will need 107 grams of DME. Let's round it to 110.

Does anybody disagree with my calculation?