Fermentor Infection, Sh*t

[mje1980]

You pitched on the 11th, and you're kegging 3 days later?

Yup, 1.040, down to 1.008.

 

[mje1980]

Drinking my american wheat now. Yummo, it tastes like beer!!, very nice, non infected beer. Thank F&ck for that. I strongly suspect the cubes were the culprit. I now have a "sanitation" chart for all my cubes. I dont think they need bleach n vinegar after every batch, but they will get hit every 5 or 10 brews, on top of my normal cleaning/iodophor routine. Now i ran relax with a few pints!!

 

[manticle]

Timely.

I just went to innoculate my ESB with some recultured british cask ale yeast. Shook up the cube to aerate, went to pour in my nice looking active starter, took a whiff and decided against it. Smells like my old friend Mr House infection. Luckily I had a pack of PC old ale in the fridge but that cube is now devoted to brett beers and is in the back shed away from my non brett stuff (PC old ale has some Brett in it).

I may also need to mash a very dextrinous wort and add that in at a later point. This one was about 1058 but I had hoped to use my old ale in a bigger beer, mashed higher.

Glad you seem to have sorted it mje.

 

[mje1980]

Thanks mate, the bleach+vinegar killed the shit out of it. I did all my cubes so when i work through all the other cubes i should know for sure.

Sounds like an interesting yeast that PC old ale yeast.

 

[manticle]

I'll be able to tell you in about a year.

 

[mje1980]

Make sure you update us!

 

[mje1980]

Dirty MoFo is back . I've bought 2 new cubes, but i've also replaced my transfer hose. Not so sure it was/is the cubes. I find it pretty odd that different batches in different cubes can have the same bug. In the last batch i noticed the smell on the second day of ferment, so i think the bug is already in there before fermenting. Im starting to suspect something that's common to all the cubes, which is mainly the transferring hose. So, its gone now. Im still gunna bleach + vinegar it all again though. Im also gunna soak my boiler tap in Sodium Perc, then iodophor. Annoying, i went so long with no recurring infections ( like 5 years haha ), now twice in the last 12 months. Maybe im getting slack i don't know!.

 

[bignath]

I had some trouble with a weird taste in my brews that was very inconsistent, nuked all my shit and it made no difference. Then i looked at my 12month old transfer hose, and thought, "bet that's where the problem is" (forgot to "nuke" the hose previously. had previously done my normal "cleaning" routine).

New transfer hose, no problems.

Hope yours is solved in a similar way.

EDIT: i reckon "Dirty MoFo" would be an awesome name for a stout or porter.... :icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

Sorry to hear MJ.

My old ale was transferred to glass for some more aging. Roughly 9 L wouldn't fit so I bottled that.

Never ended up minimashing anything extra to add but the old ale yeast didn't seem to take off - same gravity after several days, thankfully no infection. Added another yeast (forgot which - maybe 05), then later some orval dregs. Dry hopped with styrian goldings and put a minimash bag filled with citrus fruits and zest (blood orange etc) to soak in for a few months. Dregs from the fermenter while bottling were delicious - will be interesting to compare the bottled to the bulk aged.

Often I boil my transfer tube up on the stove with sodium percarb to help clean and sanitise. Silicon tube is great for this and cheap from gryphon brewing at the moment.

Infections are a massive pustulent lesion on the rim of Satan's arsehole.

 

[Wimmig]

Dirty MoFo is back . I've bought 2 new cubes, but i've also replaced my transfer hose. Not so sure it was/is the cubes. I find it pretty odd that different batches in different cubes can have the same bug. In the last batch i noticed the smell on the second day of ferment, so i think the bug is already in there before fermenting. Im starting to suspect something that's common to all the cubes, which is mainly the transferring hose. So, its gone now. Im still gunna bleach + vinegar it all again though. Im also gunna soak my boiler tap in Sodium Perc, then iodophor. Annoying, i went so long with no recurring infections ( like 5 years haha ), now twice in the last 12 months. Maybe im getting slack i don't know!.

No bleach, vinegar, iodophor, sodium perc. over dose will get the job done. More is not better. Do it all with starsan. As per the levels needed. 0 infections and counting.

Obviously it's a process combination of equip cleaning and steri. Though, i'm yet to go wrong. I clean with either PBW or babies napisan, and steri with starsan. For all smaller parts, tap parts, coupler hardware etc it goes into the sonicator from time to time, then flushed, then steri, then rebuilt.

 

[mje1980]

Infections are a massive pustulent lesion on the rim of Satan's arsehole.

Haha too right!. Cheers for the update.

Hmmm my iodophor is around 4 or so years old, and i thought i read it does lose its effectiveness after a while. Maybe i should change up that too. Im not throwing out my cubes just yet. I think i might do a trial. I'll clean and sanitise the kettle tap, and do a brew as normal, BUT with the new hose ( i'll do a double batch too ), and see if the 2 cubes come out ok. If so, its possibly the transfer hose. If not, i'll think about it some more. Or go on a random killing spree

Oh, and my next beer will be FYIGPA.

**** You Infection Galaxy Pale Ale

 

[white.grant]

Hey Mark,

Sorry for you pain!

I've read that Iodophor is pretty stable in undiluted form, but once diluted you've only got a pretty limited time before it stops being effective. The colour is a good guide to this. The darker the better.

I think if you're having problem with iodophor, it may be good to change your regime and maybe shock the bugs with a change of strategy.

If you want to try some starsan on your fermenters let me know and I'll spring you 30ml B) .



cheers

grant

 

[Wimmig]

Infections are a massive pustulent lesion on the rim of Satan's arsehole.

Haha too right!. Cheers for the update.

Hmmm my iodophor is around 4 or so years old, and i thought i read it does lose its effectiveness after a while. Maybe i should change up that too. Im not throwing out my cubes just yet. I think i might do a trial. I'll clean and sanitise the kettle tap, and do a brew as normal, BUT with the new hose ( i'll do a double batch too ), and see if the 2 cubes come out ok. If so, its possibly the transfer hose. If not, i'll think about it some more. Or go on a random killing spree

Oh, and my next beer will be FYIGPA.

**** You Infection Galaxy Pale Ale

I started with this;

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3543

And then went right to big bottles of the same.

 

[mje1980]

Hey Mark,

Sorry for you pain!

I've read that Iodophor is pretty stable in undiluted form, but once diluted you've only got a pretty limited time before it stops being effective. The colour is a good guide to this. The darker the better.

I think if you're having problem with iodophor, it may be good to change your regime and maybe shock the bugs with a change of strategy.

If you want to try some starsan on your fermenters let me know and I'll spring you 30ml B) .



cheers

grant

I have a few litres of undiluted left, but i think i'll change up and try the starsan anyway grant, thanks for the offer though. Pain in the bloody arse im telling ya!!.

Cheers wimmig. I've got heaps of sod perc, so i think i'll just grab a big bottle of starsan.

Kegs are nearly empty so i need to pull my finger out haha

 

[Byran]

:angry: Pitched a cube into my new fermentor with dry US05.

Guess what??

















ITS F%CKING INFECTED TOO!!! :angry:

Its a strong medicinal smell. Very p&ssed off.

Ok so, now all cubes ( and my NEW fermentor ) are being hit with bleach + vinegar, and all little things associated with it that can fit into a bucket. I must say this is demoralising, and im verging on paranoia. F^CK F%CK F#CK!!

Im not sure how i got the same infection in 2 different cubes, so the boiler tap is soaking too.

Chapter 21 - Is My Beer Ruined?
21.2 Common Off-Flavors

Medicinal
These flavors are often described as mediciney, Band-Aid like, or can be spicy like cloves. The cause are various phenols which are initially produced by the yeast. Chlorophenols result from the reaction of chlorine-based sanitizers (bleach) with phenol compounds and have very low taste thresholds. Rinsing with boiled water after sanitizing is the best way to prevent these flavors.

Could be due to the bleach perchance?

I recently got an Acetobactor infection from re pitching a yeast cake of US-05 after another brew. My bad for not tasting the sample first!
Here is a nice picture of it, tasted like vinegar and was cloudy as all buggery.

View attachment 51923

 

[stux]

I rotate between iodophor and starsan

the only infection I've had was when a cider was dripping on top of another fermenter and then dripping *into* the fermenter through the airlock grommet whole thing.

managed to recover that fermenter with the iodophor/starsan approach

also, how are you getting the wort out of your kettle? through a tap? I know you no-chill, but if its through a tap you should pull the tap apart and clean/sanitize it. Preferably before every brew!

...

how are you building your starters? clean yeast or saved yeast?

Anyway, if your brand new cubes are getting infections, then it has to be upstream.

 

[Ross]

Chapter 21 - Is My Beer Ruined?
21.2 Common Off-Flavors

Medicinal
These flavors are often described as mediciney, Band-Aid like, or can be spicy like cloves. The cause are various phenols which are initially produced by the yeast. Chlorophenols result from the reaction of chlorine-based sanitizers (bleach) with phenol compounds and have very low taste thresholds. Rinsing with boiled water after sanitizing is the best way to prevent these flavors.

Could be due to the bleach perchance?

I recently got an Acetobactor infection from re pitching a yeast cake of US-05 after another brew. My bad for not tasting the sample first!
Here is a nice picture of it, tasted like vinegar and was cloudy as all buggery.

View attachment 51923

i can't see any signs of Acetobactor in that photo, all looks normal. From your discription I'd say you got wild yeast infection or some other bacteria build up in your yeast cake.

Cheers Ross

 

[Rizzla]

Hi, Ive been very carefull and infection free (fingers x'd) Sodiumpercarb then Starsan spray. I have a brother and a couple of mates who have been brewing for 3 - 4years now without ever any steriliser. they just use hot water immediatly after racking the fermenters to kegs and empting kegs. Kegs and fermenters are then turned immediatly upside down They brew on an industrial scale, with about 8 fermenters on the go at any one time and provide 50L kegs for mates weddings, parties anything. They got me into brewing and I would estimate they have produced 3000 - 4000 l without a gram/drop of sterililer. Prior to kegging they used to bottle using the same sanitation method. Their beer is not bad for K&K and they have a substantial fan base.

So whats the go here? careful people get infections. Could it be the scrubbing of fermenters creates microscopic cevices or quick rinse with hot water and start again is the go

Would like to know if others who have a casual approach to hygene have been infection free.

Cheers Tom,

 

[stux]

Hi, Ive been very carefull and infection free (fingers x'd) Sodiumpercarb then Starsan spray. I have a brother and a couple of mates who have been brewing for 3 - 4years now without ever any steriliser. they just use hot water immediatly after racking the fermenters to kegs and empting kegs. Kegs and fermenters are then turned immediatly upside down They brew on an industrial scale, with about 8 fermenters on the go at any one time and provide 50L kegs for mates weddings, parties anything. They got me into brewing and I would estimate they have produced 3000 - 4000 l without a gram/drop of sterililer. Prior to kegging they used to bottle using the same sanitation method. Their beer is not bad for K&K and they have a substantial fan base.

So whats the go here? careful people get infections. Could it be the scrubbing of fermenters creates microscopic cevices or quick rinse with hot water and start again is the go

Would like to know if others who have a casual approach to hygene have been infection free.

Cheers Tom,

Or they just don't notice the nasty infected Homebrew flavours of their beer?

 

[rich_lamb]

I hear your pain MJ - I've had a similar problem affecting about half of my brews for the last couple of years. It's fairly mild; a medicinal/solventy note in the aroma and flavour but its bloody persistent, and yeah - after a while you start to think it would be easier to just buy beer.

I've been a little way down the road you're heading and these are my observations:
1) I was using a bit of bleach to sanitise cubes/fermenters - read that stuff about chlorophenols (posted above) and got all paranoid about bleach. So I stopped using it and the problem seemed to improve but never went away. Note that I always rinsed out the bleach with boiling water, and you can get a fair bit of steam pressure in a cube when you shake it.
Chris Taylor has since convinced me I'm barking up the wrong tree about the chlorine - so many other brewers use it with no problems and the concentration (particularly after the "boil out") is miniscule.
I clean with Sodium Perc (ie PBW) and sanitise with Phosphoric Acid (ie. Starsan).

2) I got rid of every source of plastic I could from my brewery. This was one of my motivating factors for ditching my cubes (hot wort + plastic) and going back to chilling. Still using plastic fermenters though - I cant bring myself to believe they could be a systematic cause of infection by themselves. My transfer hose is silicon and I keep it really clean. I did have a vinyl tube in my mashtun which I've replaced. I even stopped using gladwrap on my fermenters for a few batches. None of this made any difference

3) I use a wide variety of yeasts, and culture fairly large starters in glass flasks. Sometimes I use dry yeast which I hydrate before pitching. I'm pretty sure I'm not consistently underpitching. I make a variety of beers; the effect is always more prominent in beers of higher gravity.

4) I charcoal filter my water - my tap water smells and tastes really clean. No chlorine. A few years back our streets water supply was changed over to plastic piping. I'm now experimenting with water from the tank, which is also nice and clean. The tank is metal, but even modern metal tanks have a plastic coating. Why am I paranoid about plastic? Because feedback on these beers often includes descriptors like "plastic", "rubber".

So let me know if you conclusively prove the source of your problem, and good luck