Fermenting Under Pressure

[cliffo]

But I think the cool kids are going with Fermentasuarsus type floating dip tubes

Am using these in two kegmenters and they work great.

Couldn't reccommend them highly enough.

 

[bigmacthepunker]

Kkk

 

[Mardoo]

You don’t have to cut off any. I have two fermenters I use for just the primary fermentation. They have full length dip tubes with pure screen filters. Then I transfer to another keg with a short dip tube and screen for dry-hopping, cold crash, and any other additives. I shorten by Dave70’s 20mm. Then I get easy, clean yeast harvest out of the first keg, and clear beer out of the second. So far the sanitation has been strong in this one so multiple keg-to-keg transfers haven’t been an issue.

 

[Dave70]

You don’t have to cut off any. I have two fermenters I use for just the primary fermentation. They have full length dip tubes with pure screen filters. Then I transfer to another keg with a short dip tube and screen for dry-hopping, cold crash, and any other additives. I shorten by Dave70’s 20mm. Then I get easy, clean yeast harvest out of the first keg, and clear beer out of the second. So far the sanitation has been strong in this one so multiple keg-to-keg transfers haven’t been an issue.

Thats mucho important. Listen to Mardoo. Cut once.

 

[malt junkie]

I recently spent some $$$$ (at swap) on 2 KK kegmenters and a 40L(?) Mytton Rodd keg plan to ferment in the Kegmenters and dry hop/clarify in the MR. Still waiting on news from the states on spunding valves. Looking forward to fermenting lagers on the shed floor in winter.

 

[rossbaker]

I have been looking at all sorts of alternative kegmenters, I bought 2 heavy duty 25 litre cubes(should be 28 litre capacity when taking in the head space) about $9.00 each. Another option was the 20 litre back pack sprayers $30 each and then the barrels with the clip lock lid which on you tube a guy filled with compressed air and it blew at 65 psi.
I am looking for one around Melbourne and I will give it a go, Plastic Man $28 each heavy duty for the 30 litre so I will try it, every confidence it will work.

I really like these ghetto solutions, but one of my favourite things about using cornys or other kegs is how cheap it is as a stainless fermenter. Swings and roundabouts...

 

[Gloveski]

Am using these in two kegmenters and they work great.

Couldn't reccommend them highly enough.

Yeah they work a treat , get a tiny bit of yeast at the start , most likely stuck on float from Krausen , basically leaves a nice yeast cake with a small amount of wort left

 

[Gloveski]

I have been following this thread and have bought all the bits and pieces to make a couple of Ghetto pressurised fermenter's, but last night came across this. https://www.brewshop.co.nz/blog/fermenting-under-pressure/
Which in turn led me to this. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1984.tb04242.x/pdf
Will still go ahead and make my PF's to make my lagers but what is the step by step method of fermenting ales you guys are using, are you harvesting the co2 and putting it back in towards the end of fermentation?

Just thought I would add to this regarding ales . Done my first ale pressure fermented an S&W pacific ale clone (brewmans recipe) . I transferred off cake and dry hoped 2 days at 15.5 and the 2 days at 2 and then transferred again to serving keg . This ended up the best hop aroma and taste I have had yet .

I had issues transferring to serving keg as my gas bottle is all but empty so had to use racking cane . I am not sure if it's because I put the hops in naked or the hopping was done off the yeast cake and under pressure . Or the dry hop was a mixture of warm and cold temps But it's just night and day to what I have dry hopped before .
I think it could be even be the 0 minute addition aroma/flavour is not being lost when pressure fermenting also , not sure

 

[Coldspace]

Love my ales out of my kegmenters .
Plus all grain brewing, plenty of friends leave after bbqs abit envious of my gear and understanding wife, especially when a mate leaves and winges that he's got to spend 70. Bucks on a nice carton, and I've got like 16-20 cartons worth floating around on tap or kegmenters lol... Makes a man feel rich
This is so much fun...
Such a great hobby/skill to have.
Such a great forum for us fanatics to swap ideas.

Cheers

 

[Digga]

Hear hear!

 

[Stubbie]

Anyone pressure fermented a kolsch and if so how did it turn out?

 

[mtb]

Anyone pressure fermented a kolsch and if so how did it turn out?

Plenty. Got 40L cold conditioning now, in fact. They perform as well as any other ale, although Wyeast 2565 is a slow flocculator. Be prepared to cold condition for a while before kegging unless you want that distinctive Kolsch yeast aroma all up in yo' nostrils (not necessarily a bad thing)

 

[Mardoo]

I always cold crash my kolsch for a month and fine it towards the end.

 

[rude]

I've got 2 Kolsch's that were kegged in October waiting for xmas
They are starting to get a little lighter, 3 weeks to go

 

[Stubbie]

Thanks for the replies. I'm on a tight schedule to produce some HB for the Jan holidays and pressure fermenting may just prove to be my saviour.

 

[Dave70]

For example, using this chart: http://kegking.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/KEGKING-Set-Forget-CO2-Carbonation-Chart.png

Say you were chasing 2.2 volumes of CO2 as your desired carbonation level and you're keezer serving temperature is 5 degrees C. Reading off that chart you'd need 10 psi to achieve this using the set/forget method.

Following that same column down to your ferment or d-rest temperature then tells you what level you need to achieve prior to chilling to lock in those volumes. So in this case it's 23psi at 18 degrees or 27psi at 22 degrees.

Am I missing something here that deals with duration under pressure / temp to attain the desired CO2? The plan is to ferment at around 20, crash chill (2 deg) then transfer to serving keg. To get my 2.2 volumes, this calls up for 7.2 psi. Working back from my current method of 300kpa @ 2 deg for 24 hours gets me about 10.8 psi (75 kpa) for 96 hours? Is that all there is to it?
Sorry for the convolution. I'm an idiot..

 

[pcqypcqy]

Am I missing something here that deals with duration under pressure / temp to attain the desired CO2? The plan is to ferment at around 20, crash chill (2 deg) then transfer to serving keg. To get my 2.2 volumes, this calls up for 7.2 psi. Working back from my current method of 300kpa @ 2 deg for 24 hours gets me about 10.8 psi (75 kpa) for 96 hours? Is that all there is to it?
Sorry for the convolution. I'm an idiot..

Time is of course the missing factor from that chart. The charts just assume you reach equilibrium, which you have to judge yourself. As you probably know from kegging, if you do a set and forget on your keg, after a week it's nearly (but not quite) there, and after 2 it's pretty well right.

With your example, if you want to achieve 7.2 psi at 2 degrees after your crash, you need to follow that column down to your temperature before the crash and achieve that stable pressure in your fermenter first. If it's 20 degrees like you say, you need 25.1 psi.

I couldn't comment on your quick-force-carb method as there would be too many variables, but if that works for you then keep doing it. But the good thing with a pressure ferment is that the carbonation process is faster because the CO2 is being created all throughout the wort on a micro level already, i.e. you don't have to force it in like you would for an uncarbonated beer, and the interface area between gas and liquid is almost infinite, rather than just the liquid surface as it is in a force carb situation.

And because you're fermenting, you have time on your side to achieve the pressure you want because you're waiting for the yeast to work anyway.

I usually ferment around the 10psi mark and 18 degrees C, and then ramp the temperature up to low 20's for a d rest for a few days. I often D-rest for around the 3 days / 96 hours as you've suggested and the gauge goes around to the 20psi mark (which I estimate as being near the second screw on my keg-king gauge). I then then crash for at least 24 hours and it generally settles around the 10 to 12psi mark, which is pretty close to where I want it.

 

[Dave70]

The reference to force carbing was only to regular fermented beer. What I was getting at was basically just using numbers I know work and applying that to this carbing up / pressure fermenting deal.
Indecently, I dont think 300 x 24 hours is a great way to go. Its gets you there, but as others seem to have noted here, the longer, gently does it natural method seems to produce a better result.

 

[pcqypcqy]

The reference to force carbing was only to regular fermented beer. What I was getting at was basically just using numbers I know work and applying that to this carbing up / pressure fermenting deal.
Indecently, I dont think 300 x 24 hours is a great way to go. Its gets you there, but as others seem to have noted here, the longer, gently does it natural method seems to produce a better result.

Totally agree, and because I'm impatient, that's one of the biggest things I like pressure ferment because it happens as you ferment and you can drink straight away if you want.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The reference to force carbing was only to regular fermented beer. What I was getting at was basically just using numbers I know work and applying that to this carbing up / pressure fermenting deal.
Indecently, I dont think 300 x 24 hours is a great way to go. Its gets you there, but as others seem to have noted here, the longer, gently does it natural method seems to produce a better result.

A lot of information on Wiley online library (brewing institute) Pressure Fermenting, discussing lager fermentation, I am happy with what I have read on this thread and excited to give my ghetto low pressure fermentation a go first, applies only to ale yeasts. This method can save me money, I always go for secondary ferment and transferring the beer to secondary I blanket the beer being transferred, with this method I can capture the co2 and transfer without using my gas bottle, anything left over I can capture in a camping deflatable water container and use with my hand pump. The lagers, according to info gleaned from above link 26 psi pressure for lagers at around 16 degrees C for finishing quicker, ale yeast doesn't like the pressure.
I tested a cube today on my compressor took it up to 30 psi so a cube is alright for the pressure range, it was a heavy duty dangerous goods cube, $9.00 for a 25 litre so reasonable saving there.
This is how I have set mine up for the ales, on hindsight I will add another JG tap and JG non return that way if needed when transferring beer using the 2 bottom taps I can bring the co2 back into the original fermentation vessel.