Fermenting Under Pressure

[Kenf]

I have been thinking about what WEAL said (& the life of BRIEN clip).
Not quite clear who the sarcasm was actually aimed at?
I just wanted to clarify, I like TRYING techniques I have not tried before and see what difference it makes! I call this experimenting!
I did actually work for a company who made beer(&wine & milk & juice & cheese) and even though I had made home brew (gloop in cans) for over 20 years, they taught me the art of appreciating beer ( I guess all the free samples and talks from the head brewers helped).
So as a non qualified brewer I actually get excited by new (old) techniques & the fact that the beers I produce are not only liked by my family and friends but are consistently judge to be better than the commercial stuff!
I would actually like to gain some quals in brewing but at 57 years of age, it would only be for my own benefit - because after working in the commercial world I have no wish to return.
So I guess in a long winded way, if you were annoyed by my use of the word experiment - I apologise. And Life of Brian is really funny!

 

[krz]

I have been thinking about what WEAL said (& the life of BRIEN clip).
Not quite clear who the sarcasm was actually aimed at?
....

More thank likely me, but that said I have a thick skin and I reckon (judging by the amount of abuse WEAL has received), WEAL is even Thicker (skin I meant).

I agree with you Kenf, experiments are fun. Some beers are good, some are bad. I even drink my bad ones (except for one).

I am a MASSIVE fan on Monty Python.

 

[Kenf]

Oh I know he does!
Cheers mate

 

[wide eyed and legless]

It wasn't aimed at anyone, it is difficult to avoid the basic framework of society, when we left the trees there were two parties, 'leaders' and 'followers', as we advanced as humans a third party came into play,
the 'questioners'. The 'questioners' were dealt with pretty quickly. The followers remain the largest party, With democracy and education there are many more 'questioners', but even so there are still people who will blindly follow something which science has proved not to be beneficial, and without any scientific evidence to say that it is. Hence the Life of Brian clip aptly named 'Followers Misinterpretation'

 

[Reg Holt]

I have been thinking about what WEAL said (& the life of BRIEN clip).
Not quite clear who the sarcasm was actually aimed at?
I just wanted to clarify, I like TRYING techniques I have not tried before and see what difference it makes! I call this experimenting!
And Life of Brian is really funny!

I can give you a good experiment, make a pilsner/lager, use half to ferment under pressure the other half ferment and lager in the normal way.
For an ale yeast make a Belgian witbier do as above half brewed using pressure the other half at normal fermenting temp.
When complete and conditioned do a taste test side by side.

 

[Fro-Daddy]

I think Short Circuited Brewers was doing a side by side test, I never saw the results though.

 

[Reg Holt]

I think Short Circuited Brewers was doing a side by side test, I never saw the results though.

Would be good to see them, especially if it was done as a group.
Threw a curved ball in there with the Belgian Witbier even a novice would notice the difference in the taste test, and they really should see a noticeable difference with the lager/pilsner.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The pilsner I brewed was very distinctive there wasn't the clean fermentation profile that should have been there, I wouldn't bother brewing one again but I will still continue to collect the co2 gas.

 

[krz]

...when we left the trees there were two parties, 'leaders' and 'followers', as we advanced as humans a third party came into play,\'

Thats

 

[Reg Holt]

Holy Moly, I have never seen communication by youtube expanding on the Life of Brian theme. I could get to enjoy this.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

You are getting the hang of it Reg.

 

[Aletheist]

Blind triangle tests have been carried out Brülosophy I think.. the result was insignificant from memory.. ie tasters could not tell the difference. I kegged a German Pilsner last night that was pressure fermented at 12 deg C, although it was low psi (2-3), then ramped up to ale temp when it reached 50% expected attenuation and about 8psi. 2 weeks after brew day and It’s a cracker.

 

[Aletheist]

Here is the article:

http://brulosophy.com/2018/08/30/im...ion-on-a-lager-beer-the-bru-club-xbmt-series/

Edit: noting they used White Labs high pressure lager yeast.

I used WLP830

 

[wide eyed and legless]

What you are making is an average beer as opposed to a good beer, in this podcast the pressure fermented lager was picked out from the blind test. Blichman said himself that you will not make a genuine lager using this method and Chris White suggested, he would like to see some sort of open style fermenter on the market. Why, because he knows that the yeast will not perform in top pressure conditions. http://beersmith.com/blog/2018/01/1...s-white-john-blichmann-beersmith-podcast-163/

I have asked John Palmer his thoughts on pressurised fermenting, his reply was, 'why would you do that'.

 

[Aletheist]

I guess my point with this example was that tasters could not tell the difference. There are examples that support both sides of the argument. I’m a proud fencesitter with most things in life, so as to not get too clouded in bias.

I’ve made many an average beer in my lifetime (most with conventional processes), and I wouldn’t attribute ‘cracker’ to something that wasn’t comparatively good. I’m also perennially my beers’ own worst critic.

I was very happy with this beer, and expected it to be ‘average’.

To answer Palmers question, I’d say “because surprisingly, it worked quite well for me, and was relatively quick from brew day to glass”. Rather rational answers I would have thought.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

If you have made a German Pilsner in a traditional way and then with a pressure fermeted quick turn around beer and you don't notice any difference then just stick with the pressure ferment.
I have done both and the difference to my palate was substantial enough not to bother trying pressure ferment again. Not me that has any bias just my palate.

 

[Aletheist]

Fair call.. This was the first time I brewed this particular recipe (also a German Pils) and I'm that happy with the result I'm reluctant to ferment and condition at traditional temps in the fear that it will change my method for this particular recipe... my time,chamber space and keezer tap rotation requirements are too in demand for the foreseeable future!

No doubt I will at some stage though. It will be interesting to see any difference, and if so whether it is comparatively positive enough to my palate to justify the extra time.

IMO beer style/recipe could be a big variable in determining whether a pressure ferment is worth it or not. ie a Dunkel or Schwarzbier could potentially mask things that can't be hidden in say a Pilsner or Helles. I guess that is why I was rather surprised with the outcome of this recipe, which from memory was 100% Premium pils and traditional noble hop profile. I can't pick anything from the yeast activity that seems unpleasant or out of whack.. early on I felt sulphur could be playing a bit too much of a part but it has really mellowed.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The pressure from the co2 will suppress the esters of the yeast.

 

[Reg Holt]

What would be good is for someone to

The pressure from the co2 will suppress the esters of the yeast.

You look like you are flagging WEAL.Look on the bright side you aren't the one who is having to drink it.

 

[Kenf]

Good morning all, I have decided that those with greater knowledge are probably right. But since I do brew some small (5 litre) batches and now that I have a 9 litre keg/ fermenter, I will continue to use the process! In fact I put down a Saison yesterday and it’s doing nicely.
I have enjoyed the conversation though
Cheers