Fermenting Under Pressure

[Gibbo411]

I have tried that with the strong ales, by the time it comes time to drink them I will only have a dozen or so left.

One of those plan ahead kind of things, by the time you're drinking a batch you've done 3-4 others since that you have to wait for. Figuratively speaking of course.

 

[altone]

From what I have been reading many home brewers are starting off setting the spunding valve to 15 even 20 PSI. It has been mentioned before that many breweries, especially craft breweries only cap at the end of fermentation so as carbonate their beer. I doubt whether there are any breweries fermenting at 15 PSI, not just because that most of the fermentation tanks have a safe pressure limit of 15 PSI.
I am sure that if fermenting in a closed vessel and keeping it at 15 PSI or less and continually producing satisfactory beer in a shorter time frame the breweries would be all over it.

i do pressure ferments mainly on malt driven beers, usually at zero for the first 3 days, then set spunding to 10psi or so.
True, my aim is to speed up the ferment by increasing pressure and temperature.
I've done side by side comparisons and cannot identify which is fermented in the usual manner or under pressure.
Having said that, I'm no beer judge.
Perhaps I'm hitting the sweet spot of giving the yeast free range then gradually building up carbonation.

Home brewers conditions are far removed from commercial breweries, so that comparison is moot.

Many have had good results under varying pressures and temperatures.

I do think though it's usually done for speed/convenience rather than trying to brew something "better" than under normal fermentation.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

i do pressure ferments mainly on malt driven beers, usually at zero for the first 3 days, then set spunding to 10psi or so.
True, my aim is to speed up the ferment by increasing pressure and temperature.
I've done side by side comparisons and cannot identify which is fermented in the usual manner or under pressure.
Well the reason you wouldn't be tasting any difference is you are doing it as Teri Fahrendorf suggested it should be done, let the pressure vent and cap at the end of fermentation, as was mentioned earlier there are those who pitch the yeast then immediately restrict the venting of the co2.
Here is Teri Fahrendorfs web site, the original post on Closed pressurised fermentation is in the side bar.
http://www.terifahrendorf.com/index.html

 

[krz]

I think the important thing to remember, that because of the ability to easily pressure ferment these days,pressure fermenting is somewhat of an experiment.
Someone living in Germany in the 1800's might be gobsmacked that its possible to cool a beer in a device that makes "things cool" rather than in a cave where it was left to lager.
Likewise, us homebrewers we can now buy CO2 in a bottle, and carbonate or use it to serve our beers. This is not like it was in the old days.

I remember my dad telling me a story, he lived in Berlin during the war years. His dad sent him down to the local pub with a bottle "growler", and had him fill it up and bring back home.

What Im trying to say, theres a possability that pressure fermenting is a good thing, maybe its not, but we are the experimenters.

Long live Home Brew

 

[Maheel]

As I said before if you are happy with what you make thats fine, I am not here to convert anyone just pointing out a few facts. I am not in a rush to produce a beer just to produce a good beer which I can enter into competitions with a good chance of winning, or at least getting a place.There are many ways of measuring success, speed isn't one of them, unless of course you are in a race.

Hey Reg

1st I don't enter comps, my beer makes me feel happy without others judging, but each to their own i also reckon and good on people for entering comps, i raise a glass to you

Something i have found along with a bit quicker to the glass if you want it quicker is that pressure fermenting actually means i take the handling of the beer more seriously by default.

less oxy getting in via cling wrap (and i thought cling wrap was a revolutionary idea ), plastic fermenter etc etc
As i pressure transfer to cleaned kegs with CO2 "blanket" i have been lowering 02 exposure more than i ever did either bottling or gravity filling kegs. Cleaning SS , beerlines and disconects IMO is easier than plastic taps and fermenters etc

I feel it's helping me create some of the best hop forwards ales i have ever made (that's just me and the odd mate tasting)

I reckon if you have the gear, consider getting a PRV and giving it a go, great way of furthering the journey of Home brewing

 

[Kenf]

I did a small batch ( 5litres) Citra IPA in an old converted 9 litre keg.
Let the pressure build up to 10 Psi day 5 cold crashed day 6 ready to drink! I did transfer it to a 5 litre keg for storage reasons, and it tasted fine!
I’m no judge and a guru could possibly find faults but it was a great experiment (done twice now) and it only cost me the price of the Spunging gear (Kegland). The keg was one that I no longer use due to its diameter so really nothing lost!
I am certainly going to go bigger (I have a 19 litre fat keg) and I also want to try going to cubes for cooling.
It’s fun experimenting!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Pressurising the co2 has been around since the 1890's, they restricted the pressure by immersing the blow off tube into mercury. In 120 years don't you think it has been experimented on countless times, if there was any merit in it it would be in wide spread use throughout the brewing industry. Go back and just see where it originated from among the home brew community.
The land where it started, 50% of the population believe that Sodom and Gomorrah were husband and wife, 12% of the population believe that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife, all it takes is one home brewer to declare that he did a pressurised ferment, fermenting at 25 PSI and it worked out brilliantly and before you know it the followers start to jump on the bandwagon. Same country some clown says he will make America great again, and what do you know, he is made president. Followers misinterpretation.

 

[Kenf]

Wow!

 

[krz]

....In 120 years don't you think it has been experimented on countless times, if there was any merit in it it would be in wide spread use throughout the brewing industry...

For thousands of years, the people thought the earth was flat and that there were many gods.

 

[brewermp]

I don’t want to derail this subject anymore by pointing out the truth . However pressure fermenting has been proven to reduce the chance of off flavours in your beer and has been shown to be safe on yeast up to 1 bar of pressure. Have a watch of this video if you are a naysayer.

 

[Reg Holt]

Altone quote.-Home brewers conditions are far removed from commercial breweries, so that comparison is moot.
Not necessarily true, the condition of the yeast is of utmost importance,whether a home brewer or a commercial / craft brewery owner, yeast is a very hardy fungi but is inclined to shock, whether it be from oxygen, heat, pressure etc.

I don’t want to derail this subject anymore by pointing out the truth . However pressure fermenting has been proven to reduce the chance of off flavours in your beer and has been shown to be safe on yeast up to 1 bar of pressure. Have a watch of this video if you are a naysayer.

I have watched the video, the yeast used is the higher pressure yeast WLP925 15 PSI maximum it is well known that Saccharomyces Uvarum will withstand pressure better than Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, which does not really tolerate barely any pressure. As pointed out in a previous post this video is no more than a promotional video. If you want the facts about what effect dissolved co2 has on yeast look to the scientific papers not promotional videos. Also take note the taste test at the end.

 

[Reg Holt]

Thanks for that post WEAL. Closed System Pressurized Fermentation. I can now see clearly where the fermenting under pressure actually came from, my wife does the same thing, read a heading and instead of reading the article make up the story she thinks goes with it.
I will now file fermenting under pressure, along with boiling wort in a pressure cooker, and Raw Beer.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

For thousands of years, the people thought the earth was flat and that there were many gods.

Thousands of years ago the people belived there was a supreme being, know what a lot still do.

 

[Maheel]

Thousands of years ago the people belived there was a supreme being, know what a lot still do.

Yeah what ever happened to Nick JD ? he was the god of all grain for 30 bucks?

Bloody legendary AHBrewer that bloke... feels like 1000yr ago

Did Bribie B set down the 8 commandments of BIAB or no chilling ?

I gotta get my brewing gods in order...

Come on guys lets keep real-idiot-gen out of brewing............. worse than voting for Clive...

 

[MHB]

Actually I don't miss Nick even a little bit. From what I hear he personally generated more complaints to moderators than everyone else on AHB put together, I think the final straw was him suggesting someone off themselves, that or making death threats.... or him being him possibly both.
As a brewer I think he knew sweet FA, and proved it by posting loudly and rudely a lot.

Bribe on the other hand, along with a few others is missed.
Mark

 

[malt and barley blues]

Come on guys lets keep real-idiot-gen out of brewing............. worse than voting for Clive...

I think they both were just injecting a bit of levity into the thread, damn sight better than death threats.

 

[altone]

Altone quote.-Home brewers conditions are far removed from commercial breweries, so that comparison is moot.
Not necessarily true, the condition of the yeast is of utmost importance,whether a home brewer or a commercial / craft brewery owner, yeast is a very hardy fungi but is inclined to shock, whether it be from oxygen, heat, pressure etc.

Well yes. we all need to ensure the yeast we use is in good shape and in adequate quantities regardless of whether we are producing a few litres or thousands.
But home brewers have great scope to be backyard experimenters and try things the commercial entities may not be willing to spend the time/resources on.

I believe the recent growth in sales of different beer styles might to some extent have been driven by home brewers experimenting.

Now, the pressure ferment thing may turn out to be a fad like NEIPA [ ], but it seems to have some merit if the many videos on the subject and my personal experiences are anything to go by.

Like most techniques it can and will be overdone or done badly which could seriously stress the yeast.
But it's surely worth playing with for those who like to try new things.

I can now see clearly where the fermenting under pressure actually came from, my wife does the same thing, read a heading and instead of reading the article make up the story she thinks goes with it.

I think that skill is an integral part of the female human genome

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Well yes. we all need to ensure the yeast we use is in good shape and in adequate quantities regardless of whether we are producing a few litres or thousands.
But home brewers have great scope to be backyard experimenters and try things the commercial entities may not be willing to spend the time/resources on.

I believe the recent growth in sales of different beer styles might to some extent have been driven by home brewers experimenting.

Now, the pressure ferment thing may turn out to be a fad like NEIPA [ ], but it seems to have some merit if the many videos on the subject and my personal experiences are anything to go by.

Like most techniques it can and will be overdone or done badly which could seriously stress the yeast.
But it's surely worth playing with for those who like to try new things.



I think that skill is an integral part of the female human genome

I have posted this paper before and I am pretty sure it was in this thread. Commisioned by Courage Brewery.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1987.tb04530.x

 

[Reg Holt]

I think that skill is an integral part of the female human genome

It would be good if they could get it right though, I would only have to read the headlines and she could tell me all about it. Save my eyes.

 

[altone]

It would be good if they could get it right though, I would only have to read the headlines and she could tell me all about it. Save my eyes.

Sadly it's part of the "you should know" genome structure.
What's wrong? answer above
Why are you upset? Well if you don't know I'm not going to tell you!
If I knew .... no no! Sorry for being insensitive darling.

You know the drill

edit: sorry, totally OT