Fermenting Cabinet/bench Space Idea..

[gava]

Hello All,

Im starting to run out of space in my garage for fermenting fridges.. Since I dont have much land I can't put a shed up and we like to park our cars in the garage..

So after snooping around I want to put forward an idea.. Im not expecting much success but I thought I'd give it a bash..

First up:The Idea.
In my garage I have three fridges for brewing/other. this takes up space and I can't have a work bench. So i thought I'd see if I can do both..
Im soon to have an old keg fridge spare (when i make my new chest freezer version) and I dont care if I kill the old one..

So the drawing below (awesome visio drawing i know, at work so using the only tools I can)..
-Old Fridge with its door taken off..
-Create a work bench.
-Under the bench create two rooms.. 1 for lagers and one for ales /starters..

So the idea in my head is that I can use the lager side to ferment when doing single batches.. but if I want to do a lager and a ale at the same time using two tempmates I can take colder air from the lager side to chill my ale side and if the lager gets cold it'll get cool from the fridge same thing if I want to create a yeast starter while fermenting a brew.

My concerns are..
- Fridge motor burns out
- Tempmates fight each other
- bending down to put fermenters in - may require some type of sliding tray.
- Not able to run two heat belts or heaters off one tempmate heat power cable.

I would love to see if a bar fridge would do this because then I would get more bench space with the same fermenting space.

all feedback is welcome.. well mostly all

 

[Sydneybrewer]

wow if you could pull it off it would be awesome, i will be watching this as i have space issues as well.

sorry cant any advice though as i know sfa about fridges except that they make things cold.

 

[alowen474]

Tip your old fridge on its side and turn the motor up the right way??

 

[Supra-Jim]

I reckon you might burn out the fridge motor.

Not sure what your budget for this is, but maybe keep an eye on evilbay/graysonline for one of those kitchen benches with fridge space below the bench. Some get pricy, others seem to go cheapish.

(this way you get a nice bling bling stainless setup!)

Cheers SJ

 

[WSC]

I have thought about this too. But never got to drawing it up.

I think it would be tough to get the temps right as there is always going to be lag from were the sensors are to where the motor is.

I'm not a fridgy or a sparky or that handy so would like to see what people with more experience think.

You could do it with 2 bar fridges.

My idea would be to make up a 2 chamber cool room under the bench, then find a fridgy and see if you can get a compressor to run it. One compressor for 2 chambers using ducting.

As for bending down, ever thought of putting the fermentors on those pot plant holders you see with wheels on them?

???????

 

[gava]

That would be a good idea but the cabinet will be off the ground so I'll still have to lift it in.. I dont want it directly on the ground because I've heard you loose alot of heat from there..

As for bending down, ever thought of putting the fermentors on those pot plant holders you see with wheels on them?

???????

 

[WSC]

I was thinking that if I do that I would put it direct on the concrete.

Concrete is always cooler than the ambient temperature I thought.

I would sit the box on the concrete and as long as it was siliconed to the concrete and the door/lid sealed I think it would be OK.

Any thermal engineering experts are welcome to comment.

 

[QldKev]

Myself I think you are trying to cool too much of a volume. I would try and sell the fridge and get a straight fridge.

I'm running a 320L fridge only, and can fit 2 fermentors easily. Then build a work bench that fits over a bar fridge; that would mean selling your and buying two fridges.

Otherwise if you swapped yours for a stright fridge use that for lagers, and a box off the side for ales. It will give you more space for storage and I don't think the fridge would work as hard as the original plan.

i've hacked your pic.





QldKev

 

[gava]

http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/Knews-H...uilds-the-Beast <----- like this!!!

 

[alowen474]

You could get a chest freezer.

 

[gava]

got one.. going to convert it to a kergerator or whatever they're called..

You could get a chest freezer.

 

[newguy]

The cooling unit on commercial coolers - like the glass doored "fridges" in stores - is a self contained unit. It's not welded to the fridge proper and can be removed easily. If you can get one, all you need to do is build an insulated box with a hole in the top for the cooling unit. Hunt/phone around and you should be able to find one.

 

[MarkBastard]

gava, I had the exact same problem. I have a single garage, no place for a shed, and I only have the garage for fermenting area. I also had half of the back wall of the single garage taken up by the laundry, which left me with SFA room.

I too wanted a bench. So what I did was custom built my own garage work bench and made it high enough so that I could get some bar fridges underneath. I actually could have just had enough room for three fridges but it would have been a tight squeeze so I went for two instead. Bar fridges are typically 50cm wide or so and my space was 155cm. The only way I could do it is if the bench was floating but I couldn't be bothered.

Anyway, the way I'm doing it now is good. The fridge I bought off microbe the other day is awesome, it's ~110L and a fermenter fits nicely inside. I'm going to probably get another one as well and get rid of my other bar fridge as it's not frost free.

To be honest unless you have similar lack of space to me and definitely need more fermenters on the go, I'd be looking for bargain bar fridges. One fridge per fermenter. One temp controller per fridge. You can set whatever temp you want and crash chill. You can chuck two jerry cans in the one fridge for cold conditioning as well probably.

I too thought about a similar concept to the above but it was just too hard and too costly.

 

[gava]

still going to give it a dip of my plan above..

Im thinking of a tight arse way to make an inline valve, with no knowedge of this stuff I've made a little video of what I was thinking.

it's a 90mm PVC with a fitted circle with a weight on the bottom.. this will be turned via a PC fan it'll have something that'll stop the circle piece at 90degrees to let the air through via the other fan..

im trying to do this so I dont' let the 4c from the fridge into the other parts which will be 11c and 18c..

see video below.

 

[kelbygreen]

why dont you use one of them vent flaps? might need a bigger fan I am not sure but you could test one. They are used on range hoods that vent threw the wall or eave so when the fans off the vent closes so nothing can get in and infest your house lol

 

[gava]

i kinda want it on the low cost factor.

longer video get the idea better.

 

[seravitae]

gava no offence buddy but i think you're reinventing the wheel, and a square one while you're at it.

a fridge compressor power is selected to match the average load of the contents, increasing the volume is going to make the compressor work hard and/or burn out.

If you are at the stage where you need lots of space, either buy a turnkey refrigeration kit and plumb a water chiller loop through your system (like large HVAC systems do). Alternatively make cold rooms. If things arent that big, just buy 3 chest freezers and be done with it..



I really dont think your idea is going to work from an engineering and/or thermodynamics perspective, and I think you'll probably waste a lot of time and money. For the materials and your labour cost per hour you'd easily have the required fridges/chest freezers.


Sorry to sound harsh mate..

 

[MarkBastard]

If you are at the stage where you need lots of space, either buy a turnkey refrigeration kit and plumb a water chiller loop through your system (like large HVAC systems do). Alternatively make cold rooms. If things arent that big, just buy 3 chest freezers and be done with it..

Why would he buy chest freezers when he'd have to wheel them out from under the bench to open them?

The solution to this problem really is easy and shouldn't be overlooked. Get rid of your current fridge, build your bench all the way from left to right in the space you have (benefit is you now have heaps more bench space) and leave enough room under the bench for the height of a bar fridge. Add as many bar fridges as needed. Judging by those mock ups you could maybe fit 4 bar fridges under there. Bar fridges are about 50cm wide so you can get 4 in a space of about 220cm including leaving gaps.

These bar fridges will be $20 - $100 second hand depending on where you look. If you're smart about it and get a decent amount of money for your existing fridge this will be your cheapest and best option, with none of the fridges taking on more load than designed for, and you having individual control over each fridge.

 

[vykuza]

How about something like this Grays Online with a bit of MDF on top to protect the glass? You could even partition it to get warmer temps for ales, as in your original drawing.

 

[gava]

Im going by the idea of the people making fermenting box's with insulation and keep it at the desired temps with a few frozen coke bottles.. If they can keep it cold with them then I'd say moving air from a fridge at 4c isn't going to burn out the motor.. (That say that with all my experience of fridges, which is ZERO)

stage1: fridge turns on and gets down to 4c (same as normal)
stage2: connect up first area with two sealed fans incomming/outgoing recircle. this will take the 4c and bring down the temp of the box to 11c or 18c depending on which beer.
stage3: box is at correct temp, incomming/outgoing fans seal and the fridge continues being a fridge..
stage4: fans kick in and out keeping the box at correct temp.

Im awear this may kill the fridge but as stated above its an old fridge which i dont care if it dies.. and if it doesn't then bonus! the bar fridge idea would be good so i could get more bench space but at the moment i have a spare fridge and I dont really wanna spend anymore money on it.. I can always rip out the old fridge if I get a bar fridge then put more bench over the top.

keep the ideas coming! its great!

a fridge compressor power is selected to match the average load of the contents, increasing the volume is going to make the compressor work hard and/or burn out.