Feedback on IPA Recipe

[BKBrews]

Hi everyone,

Just looking for some feedback on the following recipe that I made from scratch. I've just purchased a Grainfather which is due to arrive on Wednesday, so this recipe is just based on what I have on hand. I actually originally bought all of these ingredients to do 1 BIAB batch of Pacific Ale Clone (Pale Ale + Wheat) and 1 BIAB batch of an IPA (Pale Ale + Caramunich + Carapils). Ideally I wouldn't put wheat in this but thought I'd use it up.

Really looking for feedback on hop schedule mainly. I only have 100g Cascade and 80g Galaxy. I tried to make it mainly late additions but had to do some earlier additions to bump up the IBU.

I've also got the beersmith profile for the Grainfather pretty spot on. The sparge water is only out by 0.25L (calculates as 10.97L instead of 10.72L).

Anyway, feedback please

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BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Big Knobs Brewery Dark Horse IPA (GF)
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 28.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.070 SG
Estimated Color: 22.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 45.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.50 kg Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (6.9 EBC) Grain 1 75.9 %
0.85 kg Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 2 11.7 %
0.60 kg Caramel Munich 60L (Briess) (118.2 EBC) Grain 3 8.3 %
0.30 kg Carapils (Briess) (3.0 EBC) Grain 4 4.1 %
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 5 19.5 IBUs
30.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 9.0 IBUs
1.22 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
25.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 6.2 IBUs
25.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 4.5 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 5.1 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 1.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 12 -
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 7.25 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 23.08 l of water at 71.0 C 66.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water at 75.0 C 75.0 C 20 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 10.97 l water at 75.0 C
Notes:
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Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
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[bigmunchez]

A few thoughts. 45 IBU in a 1.070 IPA is pretty low. Especially with crystal and carapils that will give the beer more maltiness/body. Unless your going for a malt forward profile, I'd consider revising those IBU's up a bit.
Next, I personally have stopped adding hop additions mid boil. They seem such a compromise - you don't extract maximum bittering potential and you lose so much flavour and aroma potential. Seems like a lose-lose situation. But maybe I'm just 'glass half empty!'
I would add as many of those hops as you can at 5mins or less (or better still, in the whirlpool) and dry hop. Then just add enough at 60 mins to get your IBU's where you want them.

 

[BKBrews]

A few thoughts. 45 IBU in a 1.070 IPA is pretty low. Especially with crystal and carapils that will give the beer more maltiness/body. Unless your going for a malt forward profile, I'd consider revising those IBU's up a bit.
Next, I personally have stopped adding hop additions mid boil. They seem such a compromise - you don't extract maximum bittering potential and you lose so much flavour and aroma potential. Seems like a lose-lose situation. But maybe I'm just 'glass half empty!'
I would add as many of those hops as you can at 5mins or less (or better still, in the whirlpool) and dry hop. Then just add enough at 60 mins to get your IBU's where you want them.

Thanks mate.

That was exactly what I was looking for. What sort of IBU would you recommend in this instance? 60+? Beersmith tells me the style is 40 - 70, but yes the gravity and abv with this grain bill is right at the upper end of the style.

 

[BKBrews]

I can forego the 10g dry hop on my current batch (only a 5L experimental batch) and change this hop schedule to:

40g Cascade 60min
30g Galaxy 60min
20g Cascade 5min
20g Galaxy 5min
20g Cascade Whirlpool
20g Galaxy Whirlpool
20g Cascade 5 day dry hop
20g Galaxy 5 day dry hop

Equates to bang on 65 IBU.

I've also had Galaxy as a 60min boil addition previously and didn't notice any harsh bitterness like others have found.

 

[argon]

I like my IPAs at least 1:1 or 1:1.5 ratio for OG to IBU. That is for 1070 I would bump to 70IBU at least. 60/15//5/0 hop additions are pretty good for a layered bitterness/flavour/aroma profile. And get around half your IBU from your 60min addition

 

[Smokomark]

Don't forget that galaxy imparts a harsh bitterness at 60 mins. I normally use a more neutral bittering hop like magnum.

Dry hop with 90g galaxy if you want to replicate the original S and W.

Smoko

 

[Matplat]

If you feel short on hops, chuck all you dry hops in at flameout. Then you can order more and they should arrive by the time your ready to dry hop.

Also I would drop your dry hopping down to 2-3 days, I reckon you capture more flavour at that time period.

 

[BKBrews]

If you feel short on hops, chuck all you dry hops in at flameout. Then you can order more and they should arrive by the time your ready to dry hop.

Also I would drop your dry hopping down to 2-3 days, I reckon you capture more flavour at that time period.

That's not a bad idea.....

I'm thinking I'm going to keep IBU between 65 and 70 for this one, being my first Grainfather brew and I can then tweak it further. Next time I won't be using wheat and I'll keep it to a slightly smaller grain bill, so higher IBU will be reached with a similar amount of hops.

Thanks for the tip on the dry hop - This will only be my 4th brew and my 1st > 5 litres.

 

[timmi9191]

My $0.02 for IPA recipe formation

IBU total is minimum 1:1 OG:IBU so 1070:70
50% of IBU @60mins
50% of IBU @10mins

Hop stand 2g/l at 80degrees for 30 mins

Dry Hop 2g/l after fermentation complete.

:icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

 

[BKBrews]

After taking everything into consideration, and reading more about FWH, I've gone with the below:

35.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 19.6 IBUs
10.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 14.2 IBUs
1.22 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
30.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 19.2 IBUs
15.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 3.8 IBUs
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 2.0 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 5.2 IBUs
10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 12 0.2 IBUs
10.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 13 0.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 14 -
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

For a total of 65 IBU (0.961 ratio). A smidge over 50% of my IBUs from FWH and about 1.7g/L dry hop (would maybe add more but that is the end of my hop supplies).

Will see how this goes and step it up on the next batch depending on how I like it.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Good luck with it mate let us know how it goes. Assuming you have brewed this alreay but if not put some serious consideration into heeding the advice of dropping Galaxy from any early addition. You may not have experienced harsh bitterness in your previous 4 brews but you are courting disaster. I have had a couple that were ok with early Galaxy but have had many (but only brewed 1- never again) that were horrible because of it.

FWHing is great and I use it a lot with whirlpool additions to get a really juicy hop flavour and aroma. I have found it works best with medium level AA hops such as Cascade or Amarillo. Aim for 30% IBU from FWH, 50% at 10 minute additions and 20% whirlpool (you will need a calculator that takes hop utilisation at whirlpool into account).

 

[BKBrews]

Good luck with it mate let us know how it goes. Assuming you have brewed this alreay but if not put some serious consideration into heeding the advice of dropping Galaxy from any early addition. You may not have experienced harsh bitterness in your previous 4 brews but you are courting disaster. I have had a couple that were ok with early Galaxy but have had many (but only brewed 1- never again) that were horrible because of it.

FWHing is great and I use it a lot with whirlpool additions to get a really juicy hop flavour and aroma. I have found it works best with medium level AA hops such as Cascade or Amarillo. Aim for 30% IBU from FWH, 50% at 10 minute additions and 20% whirlpool (you will need a calculator that takes hop utilisation at whirlpool into account).

Seeming as though this will be my first large batch and I've had quite a few people tell me not to use the galaxy early, I've changed it a little. I've also dropped the wheat from the recipe and gone with a slightly smaller grain bill, so I was able to keep my IBU at an OK level for the total amount that I have (190g). T-5 days until first GF brew day.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Big Knobs Brewey Dark Horse IPA (GF)
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 28.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 22.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 62.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.80 kg Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (6.9 EBC) Grain 1 86.6 %
0.60 kg Caramel Munich 60L (Briess) (118.2 EBC) Grain 2 9.0 %
0.30 kg Carapils (Briess) (3.0 EBC) Grain 3 4.5 %
50.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 28.6 IBUs
1.22 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
40.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 26.2 IBUs
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 2.1 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 5.3 IBUs
10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 9 0.2 IBUs
10.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 10 0.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 11 -
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.70 kg
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Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 21.59 l of water at 71.0 C 66.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water at 75.0 C 75.0 C 20 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 12.00 l water at 75.0 C
Notes:
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Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Droopy Brew]

Looking good mate but I would bring the 15min addition back to 10min and knock the 5min additions up to 10min.

Bring the 1min additions back to whirlpool and if you have enough hops throw another 20-30g of each at it. Also your whirlpool additions will add more IBUS than what Beersmith has calculated the 1min additions at.

So I punched your numbers into Brewers friend. Note that FWH will actually result in less IBUs than 60 min boil and theat whirlpool hopping has assumed a utilisation rate of 5% and start temp of 90C- I find this is accurate for my system- yours may vary.

I went- 50g Cascade at FWH- 17.97IBU
50g Galaxy @10min- 27.87 IBU
20g cascade@10min- 4.3IBU
30g Cascade @whirlpool- 3.59 IBUS
30g Galaxy @ whirlpool- 9.29ibus

Total IBUS- 63.

This will give you approx 28% IBUS @ FWH, 51% IBUS @ 10min, 21% IBUs @whirlpool which I find is a good ratio.

Taste after 5 days and dry hop as you like but I find I dont tend to need it these days using this sort of hop schedule.

Best of luck.

 

[BKBrews]

Thanks for your help mate. I still find this a bit daunting!! If I wanted to keep a dry hop in there (purely for the experience), could I do something like this?

50.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 28.9 IBUs
1.22 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
40.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 25.1 IBUs
30.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 7.4 IBUs
30.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 Hop 8 7.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 9 -
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

I set my Grainfather equipment profile to a 10min whirlpool above 85 degrees which then re-calculated my IBU's. So I finish the boil, lower the temp to 90 degrees, add my whirlpool hops (30g galaxy), whirlpool the wort, let sit for 10min and then turn off element altogether and begin the chilling process... does that make sense/has beersmith calculated it accurately?

 

[Droopy Brew]

Yep that would work well. But I still think the calc for FWH is high- It is more likely to be around 18IBU. I cant recall the exact mechanism behind it but basically you get reduced utilisation as the oils are extracted first at lower than boiling temps. This is also what gives you better and longer lasting aroma. But in short- yes I think you will find that hop schedule will work well and give you a great beer.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Oh, one more word of advice- dry hopping with galaxy has some pit falls too.
It can tend to grass if left in the FV longer than about 3 days.
Either just DH with cascade, dry hop in a sock so you can remove after a few days, or dry hop real late so you bottle 3 days later.
If it were be Id just DH with Cascade.

 

[BKBrews]

Seeming as though I'm no longer adding Galaxy early in the boil, I think I'll just do a traditional bittering addition of 60min boil for the 50g Cascade instead of trying to FWH. This drops the IBU to 26 for this addition in beersmith and gives me an overall IBU of 66 (everything else remains as above). I'll take your dry hop suggestion and do Cascade 5 days and Galaxy 3 days (both in hop socks). It's not a massive amount anyway, so will see how it goes.

Thank you VERY much for your input.

 

[tarmael]

I don't do mid boil hop additions either, I'm purely 90min FWH and whirlpool/wort chiller additions - I switched from 60min, 20, 5 additions and never looked back

I don't mind your grain bill, personally I make my IPA with Maris Otter, 8-9% malted oats, 10-15% wheat malt, and if I wanted the colour you're after, 9% caramunich makes complete sense.

 

[manticle]

Yep that would work well. But I still think the calc for FWH is high- It is more likely to be around 18IBU. I cant recall the exact mechanism behind it but basically you get reduced utilisation as the oils are extracted first at lower than boiling temps. This is also what gives you better and longer lasting aroma. But in short- yes I think you will find that hop schedule will work well and give you a great beer.

Let us know how you get on.

Actually you get increased ibu contribution (measured). It's just that the perception of that bitterness and the other hop components in solution is considered to be f a very smooth, gentle bittering in keeping with a much later addition.

 

[BKBrews]

This one is in the books and 3 days into fermentation is smelling ridiculously good. I can't wait.

Is there any reason why you wouldn't do mid boil additions if you weren't doing a traditional 60min addition? I'm planning a smash American Pale Ale for this weekend and while trying to keep the IBU under 40, opted for maybe a 30min addition as my first. Any reason NOT to do this? Recipe below:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Big Knobs Brewey Smashed Chook Pale Ale
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 28.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 8.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 39.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) Grain 1 100.0 %
20.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 2 21.5 IBUs
1.22 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 3 -
20.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 4 10.1 IBUs
10.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 2.8 IBUs
20.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10. Hop 6 5.1 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 7 -
30.00 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.00 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 17.00 l of water at 70.7 C 66.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water at 75.0 C 75.0 C 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 15.17 l water at 75.0 C
Notes:
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Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
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