Fake Aussie Lager Recipe Suggestions

[thesunsettree]

quote - "polyclar? filter?, thats a lot of work."

you must be ******* kidding, right. anyone who says that polyclar and filtering is "a lot of work", must be a fatter and lazier tnuc than I am (or obviously has never done it). and let me tell you, i am a fat lazy tnuc and it is the easiest part of my whole brewing process (3v ag), if it were as hard as you making out it wouldnt be part of my process.

matt

edit - i'm not for 1 minute suggesting everyone should/must polyclar and filter. each to their own and depending on style/preference. but to suggest doing so is "a lot of work" is an absolute crock....

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Is a clear beer better??

 

[thesunsettree]

Is a clear beer better??

didn't say it was it was. just said it wasn't "a lot of work"

matt

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

didn't say it was it was. just said it wasn't "a lot of work"

matt

Matt wasn't picking one, more so asking if it doesn't why do we bother?

Perfection is a curse, just ask my wife!

 

[thesunsettree]

Matt was picking one, more so asking if it doesn't why do we bother?

Perfection is a curse, just ask my wife!

no probs mate,

the easy answer is; for some people it does (make a better beer). and for others it doesnt (make a better beer). really its mostly about style and preference, i prefer to filter the beers(styles) i make. only my 2c tho

cheers
matt

 

[Shaneygrog]

Do they brew lagers here in Australia?

 

[Shaneygrog]

I mean would you really call a VB West end, XXXX or Tooheys or anything similar a lager?

 

[Batz]

I mean would you really call a VB West end, XXXX or Tooheys or anything similar a lager?

Absolutely, why would you call them Ales?

Batz

 

[MarkBastard]

I'm not saying you have to polyclar and filter but the op obviously wants something that will appeal to megaswill mates ans they usually see chill haze and yeast characteristics as being negative home brew flavones. both problems can be overcome with time anyway. Nothing to do with biab imo

 

[felten]

I mean would you really call a VB West end, XXXX or Tooheys or anything similar a lager?

How many of the beers here and here are lagers? I would guess most of them are.

 

[Shaneygrog]

Absolutely, why would you call them Ales?

Batz

No but the German word for lager means to store and, well these things are brewery fresh as they say with Carlton Draught now on telly so they are not made like a lager is supposed to be made, only they have used a bottom fermenting yeast but that's about all. I guess you could call a VB a lager but then you would have to call a pastry filled with raw meat a pie. That's just my opinion. Isn't that part of why we brew? So we can make better beers than the big guys? We can actually store our lagers at low temp so the yeast can finish the job not just kill the yeast halfway through and get them in the fridge. Thank god Coopers decided to stick with ales when all others turned to lager yeast all those years ago.

 

[Batz]

No but the German word for lager means to store and, well these things are brewery fresh as they say with Carlton Draught now on telly so they are not made like a lager is supposed to be made, only they have used a bottom fermenting yeast but that's about all. I guess you could call a VB a lager but then you would have to call a pastry filled with raw meat a pie. That's just my opinion. Isn't that part of why we brew? So we can make better beers than the big guys? We can actually store our lagers at low temp so the yeast can finish the job not just kill the yeast halfway through and get them in the fridge. Thank god Coopers decided to stick with ales when all others turned to lager yeast all those years ago.

Well if you are going to state that any commercial beer that has not been stored (lagered), as they were historically is not a true lager, then I doubt you will find many commercial lagers in the world.




Batz

 

[Bribie G]

AFAIK nearly all Australian Lagers are fermented using lager yeast but start off in the low teens degrees and are allowed to drift up almost to ale temperatures and then given a whopping ten days of lagering before filtering and getting sent off to the packing lines. However a few German breweries do this - I've given the beer book back to Tidal Pete but there's a reference to one of the biggest breweries in Germany (I don't think it's Oettinger, but it's a mega one there) ferment at 13 degrees and lager for that 10 days and the mobs can't get enough of it.

So back on topic for a more authentic Aussie style I do the 10 10 10 procedure - ten days at around 15 degrees with a yeast like S-189, ten days lagering fridge temp with Polyclar towards the end, ten days in the keg (which is lagering as well) - However Ross and others report good results with S-189 and S-23 at 19 degrees, going to try that next and cut a few days off.

Wandering off topic again, I'm old enough to remember the Queensland Beer Strike - it was actually the packing lines on strike and they kept brewing till the holding tanks were full. Then they had to let them sit and lager for months. When the XXXX came back on tap (and there was only the one beer in those days, none of this Gold or Blond shyte) it was like mothers milk for the first few weeks :kooi:

 

[manticle]

Looking to put down an Aussie lager style brew this weekend and would appreciate recipe advice.
Im after something fairly light that can be enjoyed by "the others" on a summers day.

I was thinking along the lines of:

100% JW ale malt to around 1.050
POR @ 60 to 30IBU
US05 at 17 degrees

Not sure how the 100% ale bill will go. I also have wey pils, light munich and vienna to add if need be.
Would a dry lager yeast be the go? I have only ever used ale yeasties so far, however I do have a fermenting fridge so can ferment at lager temps.
A small amount of something for a touch more complexity or colour on the cards?
Any need for some dex to dry it out a fraction(would prefer not)

Any comments or suggestions appreciated.

cheers

Hi mate,

this is the recipe for the malty version I did over winter. Just because it uses PoR doesn't mean it needs to be bland

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1260

As discussed today, I also brewed one with some sugar and rice to lighten it up and get closer to the aussie lager we all know. Would use a different yeast next time due to some apple creeping in (supposedly a characteristic of the yeast itself according to some sources)

Aussie-ish lager 2

Type: All grain
Size: 22 liters
Color: 3 HCU (~3 SRM)
Bitterness: 36 IBU
OG: 1.051
FG: 1.010
Alcohol: 5.2% v/v (4.1% w/w)
Grain: 4kgJW Pilsner
500g Wheat malt
Mash: 70% efficiency, 64 degrees C
Boil: 75 minutes SG 1.035 32 liters
Adjuncts:100g Cane sugar
500g Rice (raw weight) cooked and mashed
Hops: 30g Pride of Ringwood (10% AA, 60 min.)
Yeast WY 2007 (American Pilsner)

Notes:
Mash: 2g CaSO₄ 2g CaCl₂

Boil: 1g CaSO₄
1g CaSO₄

tabWhirlfloc@10

From memory I step mashed the first one, single infusion for the second.

 

[Batz]

Yeast is a whole new story hey manticle? I really enjoy brewing Aussie lagers now and then, in fact it's my next brew and this time I'm using Danish lager 2042. Tidalpete brewed a cracker Aussie using this yeast once and if I remember he used Spalt hops, I'm yet to try another like it.
If you read about 2042 it's recommended for Dortmund-style lagers and they sound to be what we are looking for.

I've been playing around with Aussie lagers and ales for years and I'm still changing my recipe every brew, it's not an easy beer to brew.

Thesunsettree, sorry for drifting off topic but I think you have some useful info in between our ramblings, good luck with it.

Batz

 

[manticle]

WY Danish was a consideration when working out the two recipes.

I'd definitely use the 2000 yeast again but might have a crack at the Danish next lager season. Let us know how it works.

For this one husky a dried lager yeast, a german ale yeast or even US 05 as low as it will function. Play with different liquids at the next point in the process.

 

[earle]

Pretty much figured seemax was talking about part of the fermentables coming from dex rather than adding magic drying dex.

However just to touch on this - brewing is about balance and perception. A 50 IBU beer that is sweet is perceived differently from a beer that is 50 IBU dry. Is it not the case that a beer may be given a different perception with the addition of dex? Not that the body will lessen or the FG will magically get lower but that the balance between sweet and dry will be different (hence the term 'dry it out')? A simple addition of dex on top of the malt will up the alc so the balance of fermentable that the malt has contributed to the total will be less - hence perception changes.

Hope that's clear and it's more of a question than a statement. Happy to be wrong.

Agree with you on balance and perception, but doesn't a lot of the sweetness in a finished brew come from non-fermentable sugars which we control through choice of malt, yeast (and temp of mash). Thats why we say a low attenutating yeast such as windsor gives a sweet finish and a high attenuator such as nottingham gives a dry finish. Alternatively its why beer from malt can have a sweet finish whereas cider from apples which is fully fermentable has a dry finish.

Following this thinking part of the perception of sweetness/dryness is unfermentable sugars which we measure by FG so I can't see how adding dex on top of malt can reduce this, whereas I can see how reducing the malt and adding some dex can.

As per Manticle this is more of a question. Hoping through discussion I/we can further our understanding of this.

 

[under]

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Aussie Lager
Brewer: Dazza
Asst Brewer:
Style: Premium American Lager
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 19.00 L
Boil Size: 22.88 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 6.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 20.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.75 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.Grain 73.03 %
0.61 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 16.23 %
0.31 kg Polenta (3.9 EBC) Grain 8.11 %
0.10 kg Carapils / Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.63 %
10.50 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00 %] (60 min) Hops 12.7 IBU
10.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00 %] (20 min) Hops 7.3 IBU


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 3.77 kg

This is what mje and I did a couple of weeks back. Using fresh POR flowers. Its currently sitting on S189. Hopefully it turns out great.

 

[Bribie G]

Yeast is a whole new story hey manticle? I really enjoy brewing Aussie lagers now and then, in fact it's my next brew and this time I'm using Danish lager 2042. Tidalpete brewed a cracker Aussie using this yeast once and if I remember he used Spalt hops, I'm yet to try another like it.
If you read about 2042 it's recommended for Dortmund-style lagers and they sound to be what we are looking for.

I've been playing around with Aussie lagers and ales for years and I'm still changing my recipe every brew, it's not an easy beer to brew.

Thesunsettree, sorry for drifting off topic but I think you have some useful info in between our ramblings, good luck with it.

Batz

Pete gave me a bottle of that last year, and I think it was Spalt as well, it tasted like Crown Lager Should taste and I reckon it was largely in the yeast, I've finally got a pack of Danish sitting in the fridge and will be doing a series of Aussies for the hot weather ahead. Pete's recipe didn't have any sugaz in it however and it was far meatier than say a Carlton Draught or XXXX. But one of the best HBs that has ever flowed past my tonsils.
Edit: I reckon he should put it up in the recipe DB or at least put up the Beersmith page for us.

 

[manticle]

Agree with you on balance and perception, but doesn't a lot of the sweetness in a finished brew come from non-fermentable sugars which we control through choice of malt, yeast (and temp of mash). Thats why we say a low attenutating yeast such as windsor gives a sweet finish and a high attenuator such as nottingham gives a dry finish. Alternatively its why beer from malt can have a sweet finish whereas cider from apples which is fully fermentable has a dry finish.

Following this thinking part of the perception of sweetness/dryness is unfermentable sugars which we measure by FG so I can't see how adding dex on top of malt can reduce this, whereas I can see how reducing the malt and adding some dex can.

As per Manticle this is more of a question. Hoping through discussion I/we can further our understanding of this.

I don't think just adding a kg of dex on top will reduce the FG - just that the BU/GU ratio will change, the alc level will obviously change and the perceived bitterness and dryness will change. Even if the FG stays at x, the degree or percentage of attenuation will be higher if we assume that all that dex is femented. That's if added, not replaced. Think of high grav belgian style beers for example.

If not added but used as a replacement/partial replacement then the FG will be lower.

Any advice I would give to add a touch of sugar would involve choosing an OG in the recipe development and using a portion of sugar to hit that figure, not choosing that figure, then bumping it up with the sugar.

Hope that makes sense.